1950 xk120 alloy owner history

I have a 1950 xk120 alloy number 98. This car has been in my family since the late 50s. Any suggestions on how to find out the history of the vehicle from its beginning? I believe it was shipped to the US from Germany by the previous owner around 1957 or earlier. Any help would be appreciated.

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Wow a new one I would have the early delivery history but nothing since.
Love to see some photos
regards terry tmcgrath@bigpond.com

670098 shows in XKData as being in Portugal with a steel body in 2011.
It states that photos of it were examined by Terry and others but no more notes have been added since.
As owner of 670088, I too would like to see more pictures and details of its life.
Mike May

Mike,
I read the same thing in xkdata. Not sure how that could be. If you send me your email I will send you some pics.

Don’t be mean post them here please???

First off, lets be sure of the chassis number.
Is it 670098 LHD or 660098 RHD?
In either case, if you find the info on xkdata is wrong, you can change it.
Not unusual for someone to enter info with a wrong chassis number.
It happens with auction cars often enough.

Thanks Gregg.

My email is mike@xkss.com.

I am having a similar problem with another alloy car I own #670110 where someone else claim to own the car.

A lot of contributors seem to have selective memory on cars they have seen and info. they posses.

Mike

Definitely LHD…,

Looks like a new re-stamped plate.

Tom,
With all due respect, I disagree. Unless it was replaced prior to 1956.

I have sighted a poor photo of ID plate and I am positive that it is the real thing.
I am trying to find pics of the Portugal car from memory the car had been converted to pseudo XK120dhc lookalike

the last car that was noted as being in Portugal was 670163 http://www.xkdata.com/cars/detail/?car=670163 and full covered on xkdata with photos ie the pseudo 120dhc now restored CMC in the UK.
I have found the reference to 670098 and the reason I had trouble finding It was that I considered it to not be an alloy car at all and filed elsewhere.
See all the emails below, no pics of ID plate or chassis number ever provided, nothing on body was correct see some of items I list below this Portuguese ex France XK120 is not 670098 even engine number quoted is from an XK120 in Australia!
So the recent discovery in the USA is the real McCoy
Terry McGrath

Silver / red car sold new by International Mtrs 670098, first owner Mclean.

late 2010
dear david,
there is nothing on this car that indicates alloy
firewall wrong
bonnet wrong
hinges wrong
fuel filler cap wrong
wrong dash board
late dash
washer jets fitted
wrong pillars
wrong seats
no strengthening patch inside front wing to strengthen for bumper mounts
early alloy 120’s don’t appear to have chassis number on plinth adjacent to exhaust (I am not sure when this side stamping started)

I would like to see good pics of all the numbers either misread or all have been restamped

The only remote bit that looks like alloy is the weld line inside front mudguard!
regards terry

----- Original Message -----
From: DAVID BENTLEY
To: John Elmgreen
Cc: McGrath Terry
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 3:55 AM
Subject: Eng. W1903-8

John,
Two bonus points awarded!!
Please see my notes on 670098 below plus 9 x photos attached - it appears that eng. W1903-8 is now installed in 670098!
All the best,
David
 

670098

20 Apr 10 Pedro Sommer Carvalho (pedro.sommer.carvalho@googlemail.com) to PHP, copy to MM and Armando Morgado (armando.morgado@sipca.pt), copied by MM to DB: I have come across two very interesting cars and I wonder if you have any information concerning these cars. The first is an SS #80005, eng. L 1772 from 1939, which was imported during the war time (apparently it came directly to Portugal in that same year) - it is a good project car. The second is a 1949 XK 120 OTS painted in OEW with red interior, with French car plate, that was imported in 1996 to Portugal (#670098) - it is in running condition but needs some care. Thanks in advance for your help.

20 Apr 10 MM to DB: Philip is at a book fair at the moment so will not have seen this yet and will no doubt have some comment, but I wondered if you have anything to add on these cars? They sound like very interesting discoveries!

20 Apr 10 DB to MM: Gosh, they do still keep turning up! Thank goodness!

I cannot advise at all ref. the SS, I am afraid.

Chassis 670098 is a rare LHD alloy 120 OTS, which was manufactured during January 1950. I do not have any record of this car. A complete list of known alloy 120 OTS survivors was published in Jaguar World Jan 95 (Vol 7 No. 3) starting on p 85 - 670098 was not amongst them. Nothing about the car appears in xkdata.com and I am almost sure that Peter Ingram has not reported on it as I do not have any note of this. Thus, it appears to be a real "discovery"! Great stuff!
22 Apr 10 PHP to Pedro Sommer Carvalho, copied later by PHP to DB: Many thanks for your email and apologies for not replying sooner. As Malcolm mentioned, I have been out of the office for a few days with little opportunity to keep up with my emails.

These cars sound most interesting, to say the least. I am not an expert on SS Jaguars but I believe 80005 is the 5th of 135 1940 2 1/2 litre saloons/dropheads (they used same chassis number sequence for both models).

The XK 120 is quite a find because I do not think it was known to still exist. It was originally exported to Hornburg (West Coast distributor) in Los Angeles in the United States and was Silver with Red upholstery. It was manufactured in January 1950 and despatched a month later. That is all I know about this car, I am afraid.

Hope this helps. We would love to have some more information and some photos, please.

15 May 10 Pedro Sommer Carvalho to PHP, copied by PHP to DB: I was able to see the car today and the SS is complete and I have checked with JDHT that all numbers match.

In terms of the XK 120 there are a few problems. The chassis, body and engine do not match - not sure about the true number of the body as the chassis plate is not original. That said, the chassis has the number 9700098 stamped on the two usual places (front and next to pump) and there are no signs of change. The body looks like being from other another car and most (if not all characteristics) features are from steel cars. I have taken a few pictures and I was hoping for you to give me your input. Is there any part that you spot as being from an alloy? (DB - XK Photos x 9).

18 May 10 PHP to Pedro Sommer Carvalho, copy to Armando Morgado, MM and DB: Many thanks for the photos and further information. Could the number be 670098? This car went originally to Los Angeles but is not known to exist today, as far as I know. Having said that, the car (body) does not look like an alloy car, as you say. The engine looks quite early (pre-April 1952) as it has no cylinder head studs at the front. The dashboard, however, looks later (after Oct/Dec 52). So, it may be a mixture. Hope that helps a little. Good luck.

18 May 10 MM to DB: Are you able to help Pedro to identify this car's make-up? It is a fascinating story - please keep me in the loop! Philip replied as below (DB - above), but I know that he was in a crazy hurry - I am hoping that you can give Pedro some more helpful suggestions on signs to look for etc?

24 May 10 DB to Pedro Sommer Carvalho, copy to PHP, MM and Armando Morgado: Philip Porter has copied your emails and photographs to me. I am sorry to have been a long time in emailing you but I have been very busy - XKs are my hobby! I like to communicate by email as this method tends to be more accurate where the recording of details is concerned.

Let me say first of all that I am not an expert in the differences between alloy and steel bodied 120 OTSs. However, we may be able to discover a little more about this car.

You say that the car has been in France at some stage - do you have a previous French registration for it? PSC: No, I do not have it. DB: OK.

What is the Portuguese registration, please? PSC: Reg. MP-13-13. DB: I do not have any record of this reg.

Is the chassis number stamped on the chassis - 670098? Please confirm. PSC: It looks like a genuine number and is located in both places viz. cross chassis in the front and next to the pump on the LH side of the car. DB: Thus, the chassis seems to be that of 670098.

What is the engine number on the engine block? You will find this number low down on the front side of the block on the carburettor side. PSC: W1903-8. DB: This is an early XK 120 engine but does not seem early enough for 670098. I think that this engine would have been fitted to another 120 OTS manufactured around the middle of 1950.

What is the number on the cylinder head? Please see the attached two photos (numbers 4 and 5) for location. PSC: Same as the engine. DB: So the head matches the block.

Is there a body tag on the bulkhead - if so, what are the numbers? Please see attached two photos (numbers 6 and 7) for location. PSC: W1022 (it does not look like an original plate). DB: Body number should be prefixed "F". W1022 sounds like a very early (original?) engine number! If it is an engine number, then it would have been either W1022-7 or W1022-8. Jaguar Heritage (ex JDHT) might tell you whether or not this was the original engine.

I note that the car has wire wheels - of course, no alloy 120 OTS was originally fitted with wire wheels.

If you are able to obtain some or all of the above information, it should help us to identify the car or at least the make-up of the car!

24 May 10 Pedro Sommer Carvalho to DB, copy to PHP, MM and Armando Morgado: Thanks for getting back to me. In order to make it easier to reply I have added the answers in the text below. (DB - see above email).

25 May 10 DB to Pedro Sommer Carvalho, copy to PHP, MM and Armando Morgado: Thank you for the info. I have also added my responses to your replies below! (DB - above).

25 May 10 PHP to Pedro Sommer Carvalho, copy to DB, MM and Armando Morgado: I am currently in Scotland on our E-Type tour but may be able to check engine number for 670098 from my records when I get back next weekend. I agree that engine number sounds too late for 098.

31 May 10 Pedro Sommer Carvalho to DB, copy to PHP, MM and Armando Morgado: Just one more piece of information that I was able to get. According to the Portuguese registrar, the car was imported from France and had the licence plate 37 AQF 92.

01 Jun 10 DB to Pedro Sommer Carvalho, copy to PHP, MM and Armando Morgado:

Thank you for the French registration. Sadly, I do not have any record of a 120 OTS with reg. 37 AQF 92. The "92" indicates Hauts-de-Seine (Nanterre), a Western area of Paris, according to my map.

I have just discovered from the book "Jaguar - Le Grand Livre" by Bernard F Viart that chassis 670098 was originally fitted with eng. W1210-8 and body F1130. It was originally silver with red leather. It was exported to Hornburg, USA.

Engine W1022-8 was fitted to chassis 670025.

01 Jun 10 Pedro Sommer Carvalho to DB, copy to PHP, MM and Armando Morgado: Thank you so much for the additional information. One final question and I promise that I will stop: Do you know what is the chassis and body number that matches the engine W1903-8, which is the one on the car?

From: John Elmgreen <elmgreen@ihug.com.au>
To: DAVID BENTLEY <a.bentley932@btinternet.com>; McGrath Terry <mcgrath1@bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 June, 2010 12:43:58
Subject: RE: Eng. W1903-8

Jeez, David, too easy! Aus car, 660153, body 1667.   I well recall seeing it at the last Adelaide Grand Prix – 1995. 

Is it now in UK?  Kind regards, John Elmgreen

Hi David,
I will sent the photos to everyone on this email.
I am sure that at the end we will find something to learn about - maybe it is just a French made Jaguar. We’ll see.
Kindest regards.
Pedro

Pedro Sommer Carvalho
Telf +351 917 264 448
pedro.sommer.carvalho@gmail.com

Thank you Terry,

I appreciate all the information you provided me on my fathers 670098 XK120.

Sincerely,
Gregg

We would love to see pictures of it and hear the whole history or what you know of the car.
As always, when there is a question about the identity of a car, a clear picture of the stamped chassis number on the chassis is worth a thousand words.

gregggio
gregg
Jun 19
I have a 1950 xk120 alloy number 98. This car has been in my family since the late 50s. Any suggestions on how to find out the history of the vehicle from its beginning? I believe it was shipped to the US from Germany by the previous owner around 1957 or earlier. Any help would be appreciated.

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Terry McGrath
Jun 19
Wow a new one I would have the early delivery history but nothing since.
Love to see some photos
regards terry tmcgrath@bigpond.com

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XK-SS
Jun 19
670098 shows in XKData as being in Portugal with a steel body in 2011.
It states that photos of it were examined by Terry and others but no more notes have been added since.
As owner of 670088, I too would like to see more pictures and details of its life.
Mike May

Please advise all numbers of your car. Sounds like it is not 670098 from what is known of that car’s history and of course you did not say it was 670098… But we will soon work it out - chassis, engine, body, gearbox.

I now know that the real 670098 was sold to Gullwing in New York in 2018 and on sold by them into the UK. The car had been sold new through Roger Barlow’s International Motors in Hollywood to Harold O.McLean. At one stage we speculated that it might have been the car on the cover of November 1950 Road & Track - although it had been sold by Barlow back in March 1950. Love to know how/when/where it was bought in 1957! Photos etc can be sent to mail@jtpublications.com.au.