Hi guys, I am starting to address some issues on my recent purchase.
The steering was quite heavy on test drive and the aftermarket electric power steering fitted did not appear to be working at all.
I now have the 150 up on my lift, unable to turn front wheels by hand at all when car is raised.
Removed right front wheel and right track rod, steering still very tight and unable to turn/lock other wheel by hand.
Outward lock very poor on left side.Track rod end removed and still outward lock very poor. Removed the new (as other side) top ball joint and now no restriction in inward or outward movement. I fitted another top ball joint I happen to have and reverted back to same poor outward lock. Temporary altering the shims makes no difference.
With both track rod ends disconnected the resistance on turning the steering wheel (standard size) is still much more than I had expected at this time.
1st question : any suggestions on avenue of approach to eliminate any other components prior to steering rack removal. I was thinking of disconnecting the lower knuckle joint on my return from being away this coming weekend.
2nd question : re the left side stub axle with poor outward lock. On visual inspection there was no obvious reason to cause this. I disconnected the new left top ball joint which allowed full rotation of the stub axle. Previous to this there was only full inward lock and approx half outward lock though with a lot of pressure some further lock could be attained.
I then fitted another top ball joint which I had but when it was fitted and tightened up still only approx half outward lock could be attained no difference.
Incidentally the right hand side also has a similar new top ball joint fitted with no issues at all.
Any suggestions on either problem will be very much appreciated.
There may a delay until Monday PM with my replies as I shall be away from tomorrow.
Thanks in advance
Before removing the lower ball joint I would try only removing the cap and shims.
Agreeing with Art, it sounds like too tight lower ball joints.
The best way to do these is upside down in a bench vise.
There is plenty in the archives about these.
Steering rack is a separate issue. There is an adjustable friction plunger on top, and it could also be a problem in the column.
Happened to me when I first got my 150 in 2000. Took it to an alignment shop and they sent me home to redo the ball joints. I didn’t put enough shims on the lowers and steering was very still. Added correct shims and it was perfect
Pat H
Hi Guys, arrived back today a bit too late to for starting work on the XK150.
Hopefully will have something to report back on progress tomorrow pm.
Eugene
Got a chance to check over suspect lower ball joint.
On close examination the joint itself appears ok ( lower cap removed and no difference in outward lock) . It does appear to be the original joint. When I manually lock the wheels outward (track rod ends disconnected) I can see from the the point of tightness onwards the pair of upper suspension arms are forced to move slightly upwards as pressure is increased. On the right side full inward and outward lock is attended with minimal effort and no movement at all of the upper arms.
Have decided on ordering a pair of, as forum members suggest, a pair of Jaguar XJ40 lower ball joints, is there any particular model or year I should specify /
That will leave all joints including track rod ends being new.
Re the tight steering. I removed the pinch bolt at the lower end of the bottom steering rod universal joint where it connects to the steering rack.
Surprised to see the short rod mating this joint was not splined relying only on the bolt and nut.
With pinch bolt removed the steering wheel still remains stiff and I am also unable to manually push the disconnected T R ends for and aft in the rack. Should this not be possible when both TR ends disconnected ?
Is the connection between rack and bottom steering rod coupling a very tight fit causing me to be unable to distinguish if the problem lies in the steering rack or from steering wheel down to the rack.
Where can I find the mentioned adjustment on the steering rod?
I also found it strange to see that all of the shims on both upper ball joints where positioned to the rear, next windscreen. I had thought they would be more 50/50 divided out, maybe I am wrong.
Eugene
Yesterday I pulled the drivetrain out of a 150S. The head was off, and we split the block and bell, pulling the block forward, then up and out.
To make a bit of room at the front I removed the fasteners holding the steering rack to the frame: Those captive nuts at the front make the setscrews good candidates for worst fastener access on a Jag!
I don’t think you can use later ball joints. The bolt pattern is not even close. If you can fit them it means the whole stub axle carrier has been changed. That changes everything.
Hi Art, the ball joints are the original XK units. I got new xk replacement bottom ball joints, inner cups and rubbers. Fitted them today and no difference, if anything the outward lock is worse and on the R.H. side where the lock was very good, left and right I now have only about half of an outward lock. I have looked at everything over and over again but I can not see what I am doing wrong. The top ball joint on the RH side was new but the rubber boot on the bottom joint was pretty much non existent hence changing joint as well as the boot in case dirt had got in and wear had started.
What I can say is that when turning the lock outwards by hand I can see a lot of pressure being put on the upper front wishbone arm pushing it forward as I increase the pressure in locking the disc outwards. With the nuts removed from the top ball joint studs it is easy to see the forward movement of the front upper wishbone arm when lock is being forced out. This is the same case on both sides.
My comments were mostly about not trying to use late XJ type ball joints. After that I can only wonder if someone has used a different type of upright and spindle assy. There are some differences between the Mk7-9 uprights and the ones used in XKs but I don’t expect to see a problem from that. If you can find a part number or photograph the spindle upright it might help. I also have to wonder if all the upper arms and lower arms are properly located. If something is wrong there it might put a preload on everything. If have some doubt that the person who assembled all of this and added the power rack was familiar with XKs. I’ve never seen and trouble turning the upright in it’s ball joints. It should turn free when detached from the steering. See if you can determine if all arms are in their correct place. The lower wishbone mounting point is located by 4 bolts. Two are shoulder bolts. If someone used simple 3/8 bolts those arms could be twisted but not much. If all 4 bolts on each side are the same someone didn’t know what he was doing.
Art I will check out your points tomorrow and let you know.
The darn thing is the right hand side had full lock left and right until I changed the bottom ball joint so I must have done something wrong but what. I have changed numerous ball joints in my time and on this occasion I’m left scratching my head. Nothing else was touched apart from loosening the top ball joint for access to the bottom one and then all tightened back up again.
The difference is the swivel inclination, or the angle between the stub axle and a line through the ball joint centers, saloons being 8 degrees where XKs are 5 degrees. But that doesn’t sound like Eugene’s problem.
When you are doing this lock to lock testing, is the suspension dangling down, or do you have it supported under the lower arms near the ball joints?
Hi guys, some answers for you.
The XJ40 bottom joints do have a different stud pattern than the XK though interchangeable with the Mk2 saloon as I changed them in mine only a couple of weeks ago.
Re the poor outward lock on my XK, I have discovered this is due to the suspension hanging loose with the car up on my lift. With the suspension loaded by placing a length of 4 X 4 timber under the outer end of the bottom arm full outward lock can be attained. Others contemplating doing this job please take note. Happy days.
Re the tightness in the steering. Prior to removing the steering rack I had a go at removing the lower front plate to see would this have any desired effect. Pleased to say it did and I am now hoping when I go back to it on Monday the addition of a shim in front of the end plate will cure the problem.
I did try to remove the thick shim that is in situ to fabricate my own shim from but apparently in can not be removed, I will just use the end plate for bolt pattern instead. Is my thinking right on this one ?
Had a look at steering rack diagram and there does not appear to be shims at the above mentioned lower front plate of steering box ? why there should be a little less resistance at steering wheel (car still up on the lift).
I have now opened a new topic specifically on this rack issue as I now believe it best to keep post relating to one and only one issue per topic entry.
I’m curious about the power steering unit you are using. Some things you say sound like it uses a std rack and pinion. Is this an add on or a complete replacement for the original rack & pinion?
I’ve only been half following this thread but I think you are saying the problem is the with both track rod ends disconnected the steering is still stiff. If that is not the problem don’t bother reading further.
Looking in the parts manual, the steering system on the 150 appears similar to the 140 of which I am familiar. The steering racks have the same part number. When I took my rack apart the only shim was under the head of the bolt that secures the anti-rattle plunger and it’s there to adjust the spring tension.
With the steering column and track rod ends disconnected I could push the rack in and out easily by hand. If you can’t do this something is wrong in the rack but you have to be sure it’s not the upper column bearings binding by disconnecting it first. Easier said than done especially getting the cotter out.
If the problem is still there, I would remove the anti-rattle plunger completely and see if that makes any difference. If it doesn’t you’re running out of options.
It could be that the pinion is stiff in its needle rollers through lack of lubrication, dirt or rust or it could be that the rack bearings are tight or dry or misaligned for some reason or the rack or the tube is slightly bent. I don’t see what else could cause this problem.
Eric
Shropshire, UK
Thanks Art and Eric for your replies.
Background to this XK is it had been exported to Jaguar Cars New York when new early 1959 (LHD). Returned to UK nearly 20 years ago as a part restored car ie mechanical components all overhauled including engine. New owner completed, or just, about the restoration when he became ill and unable to fully complete the car. He had the LHD steering rack converted to RHD ( used rack and pinion unit ) and electric power steering fitted. The power steering was fitted approx 1000 miles after restoration so the replacement rack may have been in poor condition when fitted. P.0. deceased so I cant ask.
Today, with the help of SNG Barratt XK part catalog steering rack diagram I was able to add shimming to the rack which has eased the effort a little in locking the wheels by hand with car on the lift. I shall re-grease the rack tomorrow and hope this will also help a little.
If it uses a standard rack and this has been rebuilt there is a good chance that the outboard bush has not been properly reamed. The straight ahead position of the rack is usually worn a bit smaller than the outer ranges. Unless you can get the whole rack ground parallel it will be tight at both locks and OK in the center. This relates only to the rack itself and would be checked w/o tie rods connected. I think I remember a few shims under the metal cover at the front end opposite the column.
Art,
I agree that the stiffness might well be a result of an imperfect rebuild. My pinion was badly worn in one place and I had to install a new rack and pinion set as well as all the bearings. I’m not sure that you’re supposed to shim the bottom cover. There are shims for what I think of as an anti-rattle device but is actually the rack preload. You’re supposed to take the shims out until the pinion is tight to turn and then add them until you can turn it between your thumb and forefinger.
As far as I remember, the only other adjustment is of the eccentric sleeve which you do with the serrated plate. I think this just moves the rack and pinion into the correct mesh to remove any backlash.
Eric
Thank guys. I will have the rack professionally checked and new parts fitted as required.