1967 Mark 2 3.4 with power steering strange new noise please help

I thought I posted this query several weeks ago but I cannot find it now which may explain why I haven’t received even a single response. The situation is as follows:
The car is a 1967 Mark 2 3.4 sold new here in the US as a 340, though according to Jaguar Cars in Mahwah New Jersey back in 1989 when I purchased the car & inquired, my car is in fact a Mark 2 3.4 sold new here in Southern California on the summer of 1967 equipped form the factory with the Marles Varamatic power steering setup which has functioned flawlessly until recently. The steering box began to leak several years ago, and a specialist who rebuilds them suggested I try using a product called Trans-X to rejuvenate and swell the seals,the product worked and I was thrilled to have the problem solved. Several weeks ago a problem arose and I don’t know if the use of Trans X is related to it. We have experienced colder weather than usual here for the last few weeks. When I get in the car and start out, the steering makes what I would describe as a groaning vibrating noise when I turn the steering wheel during the first three minutes of driving. As the car warms up the noise disappears, almost as if it never happened. I’ve driven the car on three separate occasions over the last few weeks, and it behaves this way every time. What would be causing this noise and why, after driving just a few minutes, does it miraculously disappear? Is there an additive I should be using, and if so, what would it be and in what quantity should it be used? Has this site considered the possibility of setting up a 'power steering committee ’ to find a solution to this problem (just kidding). But seriously, this problem leaves me stymied. Any advice and help to ‘steer’ me in the right direction would be appreciated. Thanks.
Mel R.

Probably some kind of morning sickness, a minor sealing issue that goes away when warming up, harmless on a rack and pinion but maybe not so on a recirculating ball system if the varamatic is of that kind. All iI know is that it is a nice steering box. On the rack and pinion units the sealing rings aren’t doing their job well enough which was cured by spring loading the teflon rings in the valve housing, so the groaning was oil pushing past these.

My XJS makes that noise when the level of fluid in the reservoir drops too low.

The varamatic is the circulating type also referred to as the ‘hour glass recirculating ball.’
What to do now to prevent its demise or can it continue groaning for years to come?

Update
I just pulled out from storage the original Jaguar supplemental information booklet for later Mark 2 models which includes a complete chapter on the marles varamatic system. Much to my relief the chapter refers to the setup repeatably as rack and pinion. Does this mean the system will last continue to function without any adverse affects other than the early morning groaning?

A Marles Variamatic is not the same as a rack and pinion, it has a sector shaft and a “valve and worm” (hour glass shape)

They are fairly complicated and its not easy to diagnose your issue

I will shortly edit in a Youtube series on rebuilding one that I previously posted.

Adwest steering rebuild youtubes MKX-420G-420-Daimler - Saloons - Jag-lovers Forums

They are also used in certain model Land Rovers

The various Adwest Marles Variamatic share some internal parts, including the entire seal kits, and bearings, but the valve body, pump body, and shafts are not the same part numbers

Thanks for clarification Tony. The good news is my unit doesn’t suffer from any leaks. I only need to add a few ounces of fluid every few months. My question now is, can I continue living with the noises experienced during the warm-up period without risking damage to the unit? After driving the car just a few minutes the power steering behaves as it should, smooth and quiet

Can you post a video link from YouTube so we can hear this noise?

G

That would be a bit difficult if necessary I will try. I was in the car in the garage today. For the moment I will try to provide more details for you. When I got into the car today with engine off i turned the steering wheel side to side repeatedly at which time i heard groaning noise sounding like it emanated from the steering column. I opened the hood, rolled down the driver’s side window,stepped out of the car,stood outside,reached into the steering wheel, turned it side to side while sticking my head under the hood trying to determine the source of the noise. It seemed to be coming from the steering box. What is. Interesting is that whenever I’ve actually started and driven the car the last few times, after two minutes of driving the noise disappeared. Fluid level in the reservoir remains full. There are no leaks. What to do? It the noise continues to remain but there is no damage I can learn to live with it. Thanks
Mel R

Yesterday I spoke with the specialist who has been rebuilding Mark 2 steering boxes for ages. He’s the same guy who recommended I use the Trans X automatic transmission product to cure the incessant leak I had on the Marles Varamatic unit two years ago ( hasn’t leaked since.) He actually remembered me, and he said the following: “Trans X product works great at sealing leaks, but the fluid has a tendency to go bad after only two years.” He then recommended I use a turkey baster to suck the Trans X fluid out of the reservoir and replace it with a Dexron type of transmission fluid. He said I may have to do this several times to completely cure the noise problem. I asked him if it would no longer be necessary to use Trans X anymore since the leak problem has been sealed, and if using regular transmission fluid now would possibly ‘undo’ the previous leak cure effected by the use of Trans X. He said he didn’t anticipate a problem and the fact that the power steering noise has been eliminated after the car warms up suggests no damage has been done to the unit. I used the turkey baster, removed the Trans X from the reservoir, and replaced it with automatic transmission fluid type ‘F’ I had in the garage. This weekend I’ll have time to go for a drive and see what happens.

If your system has a filter in the reservoir, when was it last changed? Also, you might consider updating your info to indicate more accurately your location in the USA, that would give an indication to the type weather temperatures you are experiencing.

I put in a new filter from SNG Barratt two years ago shortly before adding the Trans X. The old filter might have been in there for years, as it was actually stamped ‘Purolator UK.’ I’m sure it was in there at least 30 years, as long as I’ve owned the car, since I’m embarassed to admit I didn’t note on the factory Mark 2 3.4 maintenance chart which hangs on the wall of my garage that filter should be changed every 18000 miles. I only put less than 3000 miles over the last few years, so the new filter should still have plenty of life left to it. I’m located in Southern California, but December weather can still get pretty cold here. Last night temperatures dropped to 45 degrees F.

UPDATE After using the turkey baster method to empty the rewervoir and replace fluid with type ‘F’ transmission fluid, I took the car out for a drive yesterday. Although the noise did not go away at first, it quieted down sooner than my previous drive without fluid change. Today I did not have time to go for a drive but I did sist for a few moments in the car with the engine off and moved the steering wheel side to side in each direction. Sill a bit of noise but noticeably quieter than before. I’ll take it for a few more drives and if the noise does not disappear completely I will take the advice of the specialist and subject the reservoir to another turkey baster purging and replacing of the fluid once or twice more, and hopefully the problem will have been rectified. I’ll report back & let you know.

There’s a lot of argument about what’s the best fluid to use in steering boxes, Dexron or type F or G. Dexron has friction modifier additives to help certain types of friction clutches to work. Obviously,they aren’t doing anything useful in a steering box. As to them being harmful, I’ve no idea. Type F or G don’t have them and are probably the safer options.

If the filter is changed regularly, Varamatics have a very long life and are straightforward to restore compared with recirculating ball. The manual part of the mechanism is a cam and hourglass that gives the variable ratio; the rack and pinion reference relates to how the box that applies the hydraulic power assistance.

That’s very useful info Peter, thank you. I’m encouraged by your postulation that type F is the safer option. The fact that the power steering works well and is silent after warm up suggests to me the unit is in order but perhaps needs a replacement of the old Trans X in the system.The technician suggested I may need to drain the reservoir & replace with fresh fluid which makes sense. My last question is, the service manual claims power steering unit should be filled with automatic transmission fluid type ‘A’. What do you think? I welcome your opinion. Thanks again.

Type A is an old ATF spec, which I think would be very difficult to find. I think type F or G would be the closest equivalents. Modern automatic transmissions are wonderful devices, but seem to be incredibly sensitive to what ATF they’re filled with. I think the differences are mainly the additives especially the friction modifiers. By comparison power steering systems are relatively straightforward without the complication of clutches and torque converters. They want something that acts as an hydraulic fluid, lubricates, and clears dirt and particles. Type F or type G should provide that.

I have used Penritre power steering fluid with good results in other power steering systems

It quieted down a squealing power steering box

You may do your own research on its specs

One thing of note, auto trans run at up to about 300psi max, but PS may exceed 1000psi

I basted it out on 3 goes to add 1 litre

Dexron III and others work too, it is a slipperier fluid which causes transmissions designed for Type F to slip and wear slightly more but the power steering will not care how much friction there is, less is probably better. All it needs to be is the fluid to be oil and of course seal compatibility; ATF is almost always ideal for power steering.

I understand the general wisdom is NOT to use a seal swelling additive, however you seem happy with the result. The additive softens the seals, indeed to almost bath sponge consistency! As to fluid, you have only partially drained and refilled if ‘turkey basted’ at the reservoir; do over but note the correct fluid required. As discussed the no longer produced type A (same as for auto transmissions) - the current replacement is Castrol TQF - a mineral version of the whale oil that used to be used but NOT DEXRON!

Why is that?