22RA starter relay Lucas change over. , 14VDC80Amp

Hi frank I don’t know myself for certain but I can tell you this , do a comparison test with old Lucas 22 RA relay … do the 14VDC80Amph get back to me then … I did 2 videos myself it’s incredible difference… biggest problem is them old Lucas relays get hot … that’s an OE relay just good quality… as I said before I’d only believe in something genuine….

There is good quality available there is no argument only humble opinion… I personally believe in a reliable motor vehicle… I had many bad experiences with Lucas…

My grandfather back in the fifties , sixties
had a Lucas shop down in Cork Ireland… I can tell this who ever took Lucas over in the Morden world as. Company the production products are not great … on some things….

Incredible difference between two working starter relays?
A starter relay that gets used for say 5 seconds every hour getting hot is a problem? Do they glow when the car doesstart or what?
The only real difference is one relay looks great and original, the other one doesn’t.
I‘ve removed a 6RA as starter relay from a 69 and it looked original, certainly was there forever. Worked?

So far I had one ‚bad‘ experience with pre 70s Lucas designs. It was wearing carbon brushes. Got me home just fine. Okay, three old bulbs gave up and the license plate light was rusting badly.
I had a few bad experiences with newer lucas inventions on the 70s and 80s but the 6/22RA is not from that era.

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David we can agree on something I never knew the 6RA works as a starter relay can also that’s interesting your also highly passionate I can understand direct on that … look David I went onto your forum you’ve done incredible work on your cars absolutely incredible it’s a great pastime , just listen I’m not somebody who’s talks about complete illusions … I’m also like you … I’m
giving my honest opinion on a long term solution in the
settlement base how about this I’m not sure the post cost to Russia but I feel we could have a good friendship here I’ll buy a relay 14VDC80A I’ll post it to yourself David that’s extreme. I know …. Look
I want nothing more then give honest opinion in genuine good OE in just quality you know that’s who I am myself… the starting difference is incredible … I took videos compared…. because in time will be a time ,
believe me a good solution strategy is needed will be very hard to get
good old Lucas in time …
that relay model starter is good , also the replacement is good that controls the lights horn, rev counter oil gauge fuel gauge 6RA replacement is good JD1614 , good OE there good quality… I just care about the passionate you know in old jag cars … it’s a wonderful community… look I’ve small bit dyslexic so understanding is hard … I’m genuine in recommendations I wouldn’t wrong anyone…. As I care for the cars myself in heart … I can understand years ago was bad conversion relays… there OE in quality… model numbers I give 14VDC80A for starter 22RA … 6RA replacement JD1614… they are very reliable…. I can confirm just like the original old Lucas …. Only a long term solution…… I have found it difficult getting good quality old Lucas …. I had difficulties I had to come up with solutions my friend mechanic 35 years + …
who has many old Ferraris recommended to me this method I only use my experience keep the knowledge alive that’s me…. I pass it on anything I can help in good information intentions… I can see you do the same we are probably the most challenging on the forum I would say …. I understand life isn’t easy sometimes we can express ourselves in arguments but the settlement process I feel is necessary…. I can understand you in my experience personally I’ve found old Lucas not reliable enough…. I’ve had issues getting good quality old original Lucas relays to work….

Just after releasing JD1914 , to replace old Lucas 6RA…

WM64012A , 14VDC80A good replacement for Lucas 22RA … SIMA relay ….

One can discuss relay quality endlessly, Davidb, ‘perfect’ or ‘adequate’, but as long as the relay is dimensioned for the current to be carried it will last - though not necessarily forever…

The starter relay is meant to carry the starter solenoid current, limited by the resistance in that solenoid - the rating of the relay is otherwise immaterial. As long as the relay operates the solenoid; the cranking/starting is not affected by the relay…

Deservedly or undeservedly; the phrase ‘Lucas, prince of darkness’ was used to explain all sorts of electrical problems. But nothing made by mankind lasts forever…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

Lucas is like a pub trying to make cheap chinese takeaway. They made excellent scotch eggs. Their bangers and mash were edible. But now their son is trying to reform the business and they just can’t do cheap Chinese takeaway, so eventually the people go away. Prince of Darkness is well deserved, to some people it’s a fetish (someone gave a family member a list of Lucas jokes after hearing of my hobby) but them relays are scotch eggs to me.

In the end relays are just soulless little boxes that do their job, and they will within design parameters. People have their wiring plans now and can substitute a relay which at the very least is a good emergency solution. I just wanted to stress that there is nothing wrong with the Lucas relay in general so there can’t be an incredible difference just because it gets warm in operation, operation which usually lasts a few seconds. Both relays will work the same, one looks better and is original. We made our points and don’t really disagree.

As far as the new Lucas stuff goes it’s not the old Lucas anymore and I‘m sure some things suffered after decades of neglect but they come in a shiny box, are affordable and for the most part they are alright. I try to get old stuff where I can but we do get an incredible amount of replacement parts that simply fit and that is a wonderful thing.

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“6RA” relays come in more than one variety.

One type has 5 contacts and is a changeover relay.
Another type has four contacts only and the W2 contact is shared by the C2.
There was also a variation used for the rear demister warning lamp. This 6RA had a resistor across two of the contacts.
Another variation was used in the later seatbelt warning system. This had one of the normally open or closed contacts joined to one of the relay coil windings.

The 22RA by contrast has twin C1 contacts and the second one is labelled C4.

kind regards
Marek

Poor old Joseph Lucas has been a whipping post for decades. Mostly undeservedly, in my experience.

We should remember that Lucas as we know it no long exists. In 1996 or so Lucas sold off its automotive division to another company (more coffee would allow me to remember the name) along with the right to use the name “Lucas”. I think the new company does little, if any, of its own manufacturing but, rather, is a label-engineering business where actual manufacturing is contracted out to…whoever.

IMO, the old Lucas parts were generally good quality, especially starters and alternators. They would last as long or longer than any other. I’ve never found the old relays to be sub-par in quality nor short-lived. The problem is the manually operated switches, which were less durable than most others in the industry…in my experience.

My experience with “New” Lucas parts is more limited. I’ve found that the ignition parts seem to be lower grade than old Lucas. Distributor caps and rotors. And coils. my experience with other “new” Lucas stuff is neither broad enough nor long enough to form much of an opinion. Some of it might be better for all I know.

I’ll add that, broadly, lower-quality replacement parts are making old car ownership more difficult for many hobbyists. Even if you buy from Jaguar itself you’re very likely going to receive a Brand-X part that has been label-engineered. And it will probably be lower quality than what Jaguar supplied 20-30-40 years ago.

Cheers
DD

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Can someone associate the wire color codes to this?

The wiring to the Lucas 22RA Starter Relay in a Series III XJ6 (Jaguar part number C36611) can be found in the wiring diagram at the rear of the Jaguar Series III Service Manual as well as the S57 Electrical Guide (Figure 2.1).

C1-White/Blue (not used)
C2-Brown (from right terminal post)
C4-White/Red (to starter)
W1-Black/Green (to neutral safety switch)
W2-White/Yellow (2) (from ignition switch and to diode pack)

Paul

Yes, I am aware of the wiring diagram as it applies to the original relay. My question is what are the wiring color codes for the substitute relay terminals.

There are no colours on the substitute relay, Stuart - only letters/numbers to denote functions. The original used codes as Paul says - what letters/numbers do you have?

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

Stuart,
The first post in the string above has this comparison of the Lucas and Bosch pins for a 6RA(SRB146) relay.

This should answer your question.

Paul

The wires have color codes. I am asking to match those wire codes to their specific terminals.

What is the correspondent to C4 on a “black cube” relay?

Stuart,
It appears that you have decided to replace the Lucas 22RA starter relay (Jaguar part number C36611) that was originally installed in your Jaguar, with an aftermarket relay even though the original ones are available. (Your car, your choice).
There are many types of aftermarket relays available that could do that job but I have no idea which specific one you have chosen to use. If you tell me the names of the terminals on the relay you have decided to use l can provide you with the colors of the wires that go to those terminals.
The information previously provided in this email string should be enough to do that, but since it isn’t please tell me the names on the relay you plan to use.

Paul

As Paul says, Stuart - that requires identifying the terminals - letters/numbers.

Generally, relays have one function; to connect power from a source to a user. Two connectors are used to activate the relay; identified by a resistance between the two. One (white/yellow) is then powered with ighn to 'crank). The other (black/green) is grounded through the start inhibit switch…

The remaining connectors (2 or 3) are connected together when the relay is operated, One is then connected to brown (permanent power) - the other (white/red) is connected to the starter solenoid.

Colours refer to Jaguar set-up for the starter relay, and is relevant for ‘all’ relays. However, start relay is dimensioned for high current - 15A or more…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

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