Nick,
You stated, “But…as I said…for NOW…just want the clearances you have right now” which is what I provided you. You also said you did not want it charted like how I posted it on the forum. I did that as well. I have the work sheets og each time I changed shims three times in all. I will email them to you.
Secondly, your detailed procedure which is still on my workbench opened to where I am at present so it is not like I am not following the procedure.
So far as mistakes I am human, I made that mistake of using the remote switch to turn the engine to ensure TDC was correct. The exhaust side was in tact the intake side the cam was ready to come off. The bearing cap nuts were spun on with fingers, not tightened, with the cam sprocket bolts out.
The big question is were there any bent valves. I have done all the checks you suggested up to the compression test dry then wet. That will have to wait as my compression tester is broken. I have another on order.
Lastly I want to remind you that I thought this alive job was over my head but I was willing to learn. The way I learn is by doing under the supervision of someone who is an expert in this. Yet I have had no other guide than a paper for a teacher and electronic messages from you and the forum.
I may well need someone who can wrap up this valve job. I have eluded to this before. I had hoped this would not take as long as it has been. Three months now! Summer is quickly vanishing where it was my goal to have the engine running by the end of summer. No longer can I see that goal met.
Once the engine is running I can finish the rest of the getting the car ready for sale. That doesn’t look to be happening until next year now.
My hat is off to you, Maddie, for persevering on this job, and following a very strict and clear process to resolve it. Do not think yourself alone, because every single person on this website has made some mistake while working on their cars, including this author.
as Paul said…and the “process” which is having problems show up, is why, like in math class, they want to see the work…not just the answer. In this case current clearances…would normally tell anyone what shim adjustment needs to be made…following the rule…a thinner replacement shim will provide more clearance by the amount it is thinner than the shim it replaces. (the Pringles Tube comparison). But.since your clearances are all over the place…thinner shim gave less…thinner shim gave the same, new shim gave zero…we need to know what happened before. It is methodical work…thus the chart. CURRENT clearance will just tell us if ok to go ahead…or to re-adjust…but knowiing what happened on the prior adjustments that did not work out…may…I say may…help understand what is going wrong. The most recent post of the list above seems to be all shim sizes… If I backtrack on tis thread to your post that starts…“At this point in time”…I do not see the new after adjust, now current clearances. Maybe the fell off somehow. Tring to be of help…but can not with information at hand. As I said I will try to reconstruct all the adjustments and results so far…help me out…with current clearances. Nick
Looking through the shim clearance lists I do not see any that would make me nervous about starting the engine. I would suggest that you recheck what you have in there now and report so that it can be flagged if anything looks dangerous. If not then button it up and get on with starting it. Once it has been run a bit and you have the rest of the car ready to go then you can either re adjust the shims to spec or just provide the new owner with the measurements and let them do it. As long as you do not have any valves with zero clearance I do not see what the harm would be other than a bit of a noisy valve train.
I am nervous about a “start” because…(see my lenghy post way above)…Maddy was able to add a shim ten/thousandths THICKER and get MORE clearance. and was able to add a 003 thinner shim and have the same clearance, and because suddenly exhaust 2 had zero clearance when prior it had .007…and other similar anomolies. You can’t put in a .003 different shim and obtain the same clearance, nor can you put in a much Thicker shim…and get more clearance…you just can’t.
AND…I am nervous about a start until thoroughly tested, because the engine was turned by the starter with one cam all in place and the other in place but disconnected from the sprocket…so not turning…it is a valve interference engine. That is the recipe for damaged valves or valve stems. So I can’t have any certainty that there are not valve train issues, until it all checks out, and until a shim adjustment makes sense with what the adjustment is.
Nick
I was under the understanding that earlier in this thread valve damage was ruled out by blowing air into each spark plug hole. If that is not the case then a leak down test needs to be performed to determine if there is valve damage. If a leak down determines that the cylinders do in fact hold air pressure normally and the valve train is timed properly I do not see how starting the engine will cause damage as long as there is clearance under each cam lobe.
I am convinced with all tests performed there is not any leaking air from the cylinders. This is with a leak down test being performed. The engine could probably be started however I have some clearances that show .003 in. which I fear that could be a problem. I have been following Nick’s guidance as best as I can and I say it that way because I make errors. Not that they are damaging as it turns out but time consuming. It goes without saying that life happens where a week can go by before I get back to the work at hand. If I can focus on the clearances until I can get them within .001 in. I feel I can move forward. Replacing the water pump and like things are not a precise task as the valves and work would proceed at a more even pace.
Nick wanted me to perform a compression dry and wet before I proceed with the shims. I need a compression tester which I have on order and should arrive in a week. In the meantime I sit and wait for the compression tester rather than work on the shim difference in the meantime. It will all get done.
Maddy, on July 17th you posted an informative spreadsheet showing the intake and exhaust clearances and shim sizes acquired to correct the clearances. However, the “Final Measurements” column in that spreadsheet wasn’t populated. Could you complete that spreadsheet with the current “Final Measurements” so we can see where you’re at? I have numerous extra shims in my spare parts stash. I’d be glad to contribute what you need to help out.
Hi Maddy. You need to do whatever you are comfortable with. I am not trying to muddy the waters and will just watch from the sidelines to avoid that “too many cooks” thing. Hope you can get it sorted out soon and get on with it!
as I have commented a few times…my main concern is that some shim replacements resulted in anomalies. Such as: Putting in a thicker shim and getting MORE clearance…: putting in a .003 thinner shim and getting the same clearance,and needing a .005 different shim but installing a .010 different shim, but not coming out .005 incorrect…so how do those happen? and also suddenly having no clearance on a place that prior had 007…and, importantly there was a time when Maddy said she could not turn the engine at all with reasonable force…still do not know why. She removed cams…replaced…and it turned: these concern me, as to the why of it. That said…if all the now current clearances are anywhere close…and none zero…and the engine turns rather freely by had with all plugs out…and cams are verified aligned via the tool with #6TDC compression also verified. Then yes…good to go. Yes…we need to know the current clearances…don’t care now (at this moment for this purpose) what shim is in there…just the current clearances…and that they are not zero or wildly off spec. and that cams are aligned, engine turns by hand.
Nick
This engine hasn’t run in a long time, and was in unknown condition before that, so I’m going to suggest the possibility that there are bits of crud getting onto the valve seats and changing the clearance measurements, making them inaccurate.
If that is indeed the case, you might go back to the original “as found” shims, run the engine a minute or two, to blow out loose crud, then check the clearances again.
I have been compiling my shim and clearance data which I will post when complete. until then, What I can say (Nick) is that I am doing my best to follow directions and keep track of my data. If my data is confusing it is because I too am confused. For someone NEVER having done this type of work before there are many things that have to be exact. I do not always track in that manner especially when I have to stop my work suddenly without making notes where I leave off. This doesn’t happen very often, yet to have an anomaly like that can mess up the procedure from that point. I think there would be less confusion if there were another experienced person going at it with me which I have mentioned on occasion. This valve work for some may be as simple. I am a visual learner. I can learn faster and be more accurate by being shown what to do as opposed to reading a multiple page instruction booklet with back tracking redundancies. This throws me off my game, to use a sports metaphor. Realistically, I learn by visuals. I am so glad for the You Tube videos! Watching a video makes a heck of a lot more sense to me than reading a procedural manual.
That said, and from what others have shared, it seems to me that the engine can start any time. Once running, revisit the valve clearance once again.
To repeat, Maddie: I think you are doing a stupendously good job, given your newness to this whole procedure. It is very confusing, and can be quite a challenge even for the most experienced of us. As I said, hang in there!
Thank you Paul. It is a bit daunting. however I have managed to educate myself to mark the timing chain tension so I return it back to its original position. The reason for that is from earlier when I could not turn the engine was because the chain was too loose and it would bind not allowing me to turn the engine. I have done the same to the position in which the cams are removed so I can put them in the same way rather than 180 out. With these measures taken it is a breeze to remove the cam (one at a time) to change out the shims. So thank you for your encouraging words.
I had a guest all day yesterday so I did not get the clearance and shim data until today.
I have the data in chronological order so the mistakes I made will show. If I have any calculations wrong please tell me what I did wrong so I can learn to do them correctly. They are as follows:
Even with the one valve at 18 thou, you could start it up, run it for 20 seconds or so (no coolant needed) then, recheck them all, for what may be your final adjustment.
The engine won’t start for some time. The fuel tank needs to be installed. I need to order a complete fuel delivery system to carburetors. The water pump needs replacing as well. New hoses for all the cooling system. The carburetors need to go back on as well. My compression tester should arrive in 3 days so will carry on with that when it is delivered. Much to do!
