Thanks…its a GREAT idea. If someone wants to see the finished product, including the sliding yoke, by all means, come to New York City, pay for my engineer and his time, and my time, and we can have a show and tell. Lots of S3 folks have done it when converting to a 5 speed, or simply when a clutch was in need of replacement. Did it years ago…cant believe anybody would pull an engine to change a clutch. I can have gear box out, clutch replaced, gear box back in, re-hang exhaust, in under 4 hours. Don’t believe it, lets make a wager !! LOL
FYI…once driveshaft has been modified, there is no longer any need to move IRS. The driveshaft then slides back, and you hang it up out of the way. Gearbox slides back and out without any obstruction. Easy. Tunnel not a problem. Cheers.
Hey guys - for sure modifying the tailshaft after it is out may or may not be a great idea - but that does not help the original poster as he does not have a modified tailshaft in there at the moment.
In 1982 I bought my car with a faulty gearbox - managed to drive from Stamford to Portsmouth where the gearbox failed and I only had reverse. I reversed it to a gearbox specialist in Portsmouth industrial estate where they put in a reconditioned gearbox in in two days. They said the engine had to come out but I said I would prefer that not to happen - I got the car back two days later with a different gearbox but I dont know how they did it.
What I do know is that I have had my engine/gearbox out of my car as a unit about 3 times over the past 30 years - it takes about 3 hours all up and other than the engine crane no specialist tools are needed - you do not need to lift the front of the car - just remove the radiator, disconnect the exhaust pipes below the manifolds, remove the cross chassis support pipe under the bell housing and disconnect the driveshaft. The complete unit comes straight out the front with no real issues - you then have easy access to unbolt the gearbox. It is a one person job to remove and replace the engine/gearbox unit.
I have not removed the IRS but I have helped a friend remove and replace his series 1 unit but it seems easier to just remove the engine/gearbox unit.
My suggestion is first to try and fix the leaks first - mine always leaked around the gearbox sump/filler pipe. These can be fixed with the car on a hoist - if the leak is from the bell housing area so from the torque converter oil seal well then maybe that is a removal job. It is a big rubber o ring so maybe an oil treatment may work - if the lot had to come out anyway you have nothing to loose.
If you do need to take the gearbox out then take the engine and gearbox out as one unit, Then also look at a mod to the tail-shaft BUT even with the tail-shaft removed or modified is there enough room to slide the gearbox with bell housing back about 4" to completely clear the torque converter - my thought would be no but it seems that someone has done it - is that with a BW12 or a manual gearbox. Even if possible I don’t think doing it that way will be much quicker than taking the engine/gearbox out and doing the work and reassembly on the garage floor - try lining the gearbox with the torque converter up in the car and not damaging the sealing O rings.
So my advice is try and fix things where they are now and if needed take the engine and gearbox out as one unit. If so inclined and after ensuring it will achieve what you need modify the tailshaft but I really dont think it will be worth the effort. The BW12 is a solid okd box and if serviced correctly will last forever - so once all fixed up and back in you are not likely to have to take it out for a long long time.
Those are my thoughts.
garry
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Fun dialogue, guys! I left my 1971 S3 FHC with my favorite Jag shop yesterday for my auto-to-maunal tranny changeout. To keep her “all Jag,” I’m employing a used Jag 4-speed and related parts, which John Koish of Welsh Enterprises put together for me. It was a challenge getting all the parts necessary for the job, and we’ll see how successful that was. My shop plans to pull the engine and tranny out, which is a good thing as it allows them to restore my engine bay - really needs it! I’ve also ordered a replacement console for the 4-speed and am thinking about a leather console cover with blue stitching (original Light Blue E-type with dark blue interior). It’s going to be hard to wait the two weeks for this conversion, and I am super excited about the difference this change will make in driving the big V-12 with manual. Is there any market for a used auto?
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Thanks for the great feedback. That seems to be the route to go and will allow me to fix and tidy up other areas as I go. . Jim
Best of luck Jim ! No matter which way you go, it will be fun, and educational.
Thanks for the feedback. I like your idea, but the engine needs some oil leak and rear seal attention too so might as well bite the bullet. jim
It might be worth installing a longer telescoping joint as @joe-jag suggests.
On the one hand, if it does make it possible to remove the transmission with the engine in place (I don’t know the SIII that well, but I have trouble believing his assertion that it applies to all series) then you’ve potentially saved some time.
On the other hand, it might just mean that you never need to take the transmission out again - just like carrying a spare alternator in the boot!
Totally understand. Might as well get everything done. However, while all that’s being done, and for all future work in the drive train, sent out your driveshaft to a reputable shop; 4 inches off, replaced with the sliding section. It will come back able to install much quicker, plus every shop will re balance, and repaint. You will be glad you did. I mentioned earlier…it should only cost about $100. Have fun.
I have a great driveshaft place locally. Good idea. Jim
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All E-types come from the factory with sliding telescopic propshafts and a four-bolt flange each end.
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The only ones with solid shafts and a sliding yoke are the shorter non-Jag items supplied with some five speed gearbox kits
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John’s car has.a five speed box and short shaft in the wide S3 auto tunnel.
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It is therefore possible to R&R his kit conversion as he claims, on non-standard long wheelbase cars only, once the non-stock solid shaft is modified closer to Jag spec by reinstating a sliding joint.
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It is not doable AFAIK on standard short wheelbase E-types. John has never offered any evidence to back up his claim that his technique works on all models of any series.
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Im not in the evidence business. Can be done on any E, if the need, or desire, arises. When I got my 5 speed box, once I had the car up on the lift, took me about 5 minutes to figure it out. Not complicated. Non standard long wheelbase cars ??? As British Leyland was going brook in the '70’s, they cut cost by making only one wheel base…and using plastic center console’s with idiotic ashtray’s !! LOL . SOLID shaft ?? I don’t think so. Modified to Jag spec??? I modified it to my spec. Do you keep everything to Jag spec?? Old brakes, old cooling system, old shocks, old radio ?? I don’t …over 43 years, I have made my E safer, faster, more economical, and more fun to drive. This is a forum…here so we may all learn by sharing. Not for you to decide what works, and what does not work, according to you. BTW…drive shaft did not come with gearbox…everybody spends $100 locally and gets it done right. Also, again…non-standard wheel base…thats a good one !!
All of the Series IIIs were build on the longer 2+2 based wheelbase, that much is true. But haven’t you claimed ‘your’ modification will work on any Series E-type and any body style.
What Peter and others are pointing out is that given your 5 speed transmission, the greater room afforded by the long wheel base tunnel and the incorporation of a sliding joint in the driveshaft it just may be that removing the transmission with the engine in-situ is possible in YOUR car. It has yet to be shown that it can be done in any E-type with the short wheelbase or a Series I or II 2+2And the preponderance of experience by everyone else on this forum says it can’t be done.
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Well there’s a statement (at last) that nobody can take issue with.
Alan
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What experience? How many forum members have even considered a 5 speed…not many. A mater of choice. Can it be done on older E-types…yes. Is it my responsibility to provide documented proof ? No. Perhaps owners of Series 1 or 2 might want to consider make the modification to there driveshaft during the next clutch change, so that future drive train work will be that much easier. Do it, don’t do it…but it can be done, and it ain’t rocket science.
Good point Alan…Im sure forum members seeking information, or help working on there E-Types, eagerly await your next utterance.
As I said in my earlier post - I am not sure there is enough room for the BW12 to move back far enough for the bell housing to fit over the torque converter - the gearbox is quite fat. What was suggested might work for a manual gearbox which might slide over a clutch in a fat series 3 auto tunnel but I don’t see the discussion specifically dealing with a BW12 and that is what the OP is dealing with - despite claims the procedure works on all etypes.
Having put a JT5 five speed box into my Series 1 3.8 coupe I do not believe that it is in any way possible to remove or replace that gearbox without removing the engine. There simply is no room. Even though it does have a tailshaft with a sliding yoke it was necessary to remove the IRS in order to have enough room to get the box in place.
Pictures and more discussion.
John, yes, I believe most of us agree with your statement. However, I do not see you doing so. The question has been asked if the transmission can be removed without removing the engine. From what I can tell, some think possibly the S3 can, but no one thinks the SWB can except you. To me, the issue is NOT the drive shaft. The sliding joint may eliminate the IRS removal, but even with the IRS and drive shaft out, everyone else is STILL saying the trans will not come out with out cutting the tunnel area. You keep informing us it can be done, and you are annoyed that some do not believe you. Yes, it may be nice if you provided photos, etc., but if you do not already have them, we would not expect you to do the job just for photos. However, when posters ask for advice on topics. responders do not respond by saying, yes, I can perform the task you ask, believe me that I can do it. But, if everyone does not believe me, I will not tell you how to do the job. They simply jump at the opportunity to help, and give details on how to do it. That is what many of us are asking of you. Whether everyone out here believes you or not should not matter. Simply jump at the chance to enlighten those that would like to listen. Most say there is not enough room, even with the drive shaft removed, to pull the trans away to clear the input shaft from the pressure plate. It would be nice if you would describe how you do it. Many have tried and ended up getting out the torch. You indicated previously you drilled a small hole in the bell housing to help. But where, and why? You could probably provide a photo of the hole. I wonder if you unbolt the pressure plated from the flywheel and drop the pressure plate and clutch disk with the trans. Does that provide clearance? If so, how do you get it back in? Since this is probably not how you do it, again, as in your quote above, you say the forum is all about sharing. We would like you to share your procedure.
Oh my. Its not complicated. Remember, God invented the sawzall. Put the car up on the lift…look at everything…should take 5 minutes to figure it out.