'85 XJ6 S-III Turn the key nothing but crickets

XJ
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Hi I’ve missed you all, I’m sure you probably haven’t missed me :slight_smile:
Anyway I’m back on my Series III and it ran great when I put it away for the winter, unfortunately my baby had to sit outside under my $100 garage.

I made it out 1" PCV pipe and a tarp. FAQ "How didn’t you put a curve in PCV pipe? Answer - made a jig, and filled the PVC pipe with hot water. Anchor with 6 concrete (cinder) blocks to keep it from getting air born. I’ve included a picture for anyone that cares. That’s a topic unto itself.

IMG_20170528_174806.jpg2448×2448 1.04 MB

Borrowed my wife’s tool of choice - the hammer. gave the starter a tap tap with a dead blow hammer. she fired right up - not my wife the S-III. Got her up to temp, then turned off, flipped the key to the go position and she started up again. Excellent!

Time for a bath, and go for a spin, Started to took her off the jack stands, turned the key one more time to make sure she was healed. Nope. Turned the key to the go position and nothing. Not a click (like a starter solenoid) absolutely nothing.

Well for F!@k sake. Checked the battery, holding fast at 12.6v (no load). Pulled the battery out and checked starter connection on the poll behind the battery. The connections, looked fine.

When I pulled the battery I evicted the a mouse family who took up residence behind the battery during the winter - blew it all out checked the wires and insulation all looks healthy. I checked the wires to the starter they felt snug. I bit tight for a visual inspection. From what I could see all looked well and connections are snug. There was wire fabric frayed around the main starter to battery and the ignition (white & red striped) to the solenoid wire(s) it looks like either the fabric frayed because of the metal tie down holding it or my recently evicted residences were snacking.

I hooked up my remote starter switch. nothing… No solenoid click - nothing. Crap! well I have a Series II starter kicking around did a bench check with the S-II starter much to my surprise it worked.

Well before I started on the job of pulling the starter, So I decided to turn the ignition key again and zoom! My green kitty fired right up. Ugh; an Intermittent problem. I let her run for a bit, turned her off. let her sit, then fired her back up. let her run a bit longer get up to temp. shut her down, fired her back up.
I did this for an hour or so. and all is well.

I let her sit for several hours while playing taxi to my daughter and came back to fire her up again. and nothing. back under the car, I cleaned the grease and dirt off with CRC electric motor cleaner.

I’m leaning towards the ignition wire to the starter.
Any thoughts.

Thank you in advance.

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First, Mark; consider your starter OK - don’t change it…yet…:slight_smile:

On the starter relay; jump 12V from battery to white/yellow connection - if the engine cranks; the relay is OK. If nothing; jump blue/black on relay to ground - this bypasses the start inhibit switch. Repeat yellow/ white jump - if then cranking; access the stat inhibit switch for adjustments. Leave the start inhibit jump in place for the time being pending further action - just ensure the box is in ‘P’ before cranking. To verify; with the key to ‘crank’, inhibit crank jump temporarily disconnected (and no cranking) wriggle the gear lever in ‘P’ and/or ‘N’. If the engine cranks, or cranks intermittently, while manipulating the gear lever; it confirms the need for switch adjustment…

If the engine still does not crank with the jumps; connect a test lamp between the white/yellow and ground - and use ign key to ‘crank’ to crank the engine. If the lamp is fully lit without cranking; the relay is likely at fault. On the relay; jump relay brown to relay red/white - if the engine cranks; it confirms a faulty relay. If no cranking - you may have a starter solenoid issue.

If there is no light; the ign key does not connect power to the relay - it is not uncommon for the ignition key to fail in this manner. Access ign key connections for examination - you may have to changer the connector…

The tests can be run in any sequence, but the intent of each test must be adhered to…

Further; as this is an intermittent fault, it is absolutely essential to verify, when a test gives positive cranking, that the original fault is still present. Ie, ordinary key cranking should be tried without the test ‘remedies’ removed…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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Can’t add much to Frank’s diagnostic path suggestion.

These are the elements of cranking an engine.

  1. Healthy battery.
  2. Sound cables, clean connections on each end.
  3. Relay. The tin can type can suffer from corroded contacts.
  4. Ignition switch. Age and a heavy key ring can take a toll. Been there.
  5. Solenoid. It has two functions. ,Connect bttery volts tot he electric motor. And drive the gear into engage the ring gear. Either can fail.
  6. The starter motor. A quite simple DC motor. A separate treatise for these. A last turn or two can be induced, as you did with a healthy whack,. Been there, as well…

But, connector corrosion is the place to start. Clean 'em all

Carl.
. .

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Status update.
Thank you Frank and Carl
The voltage on the battery no load is 12.43 (cranking has taken its toll
Before I saw the post from you guys, I had already taken the starter relay apart (The tin can one.) to examine the state of the internals.

  1. the points between the white and red wire (directly to the starter relay) looked a bit cooked Used a bit of emery paper to clean up the contact and push them a little closer together. tested, and we have contact. but still won’t crank.
  2. Grounded the relay to the negative battery terminal, and pressed the points together and still nothing. and checked the voltage coming out to the white and red wire. 11.73 volts. Hmmm…
  3. I did verify other than audio that the relay was relaying by visual inspection.
  4. I had already thought of the neutral safety switch. but I hadn’t tried moving the selector around while trying to start the car. I’ll give that a go.
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Question
if I jump the red and white wire to the solenoid, with the battery, wouldn’t that by pass the starter relay all together? regardless of the ignition position. if still no crank wouldn’t that indicate either a bad connection to the solenoid or the solenoid itself?

I think Frank already address this one…
all fingers are pointing to the solenoid. ugh… that means it’s gotta come out. Argh!

Keep you posted. I’ve got my paying job calling. I’ll catch up later.

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Not so, Mark - first; touch the relay brown and white/red together…

Brown is constant power from the battery, white/red connects to the solenoid. White is not related to the cranking; white/yellow is the cranking circuit - activating engine management systems relevant to cranking with the key to ‘crank’.

Main point in this test is noting if the solenoid reacts to the jump - a healthy ‘thump’. If the solenoid reacts, but still no cranking; the usual solenoid fault is corrosion/burnt connections that connects the battery directly to the starter.

Second focus; ensure the white yellow is powered with key to ‘crank’ - and the relay reacts, ‘clicks’. If not, and provided the black/green is grounded and still no relay reaction; the relay is defective. A secondary relay test; disconnect white/yellow from relay and measure resistance between that and the black/green connector - there should be high resistance, but not ‘0’ or ‘1’. If either of the latter; the relay coil is broken or shorted - relay defective…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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First off, Love your “garage”! Next year look into getting an old billboard vinyl face and replace that grey tarp. These vinyl faces are made of good quality material, made to withstand the elements, and you would also be getting a cool graphic (depending on the advertiser) to show on the outside. Just a thought.
Please excuse my obvious ignorance, but as early as '85, did they have that annoying “safety” feature in Jags where you must depress the brake pedal while engaging the starter? I had an '85 XJ6 but can’t remember.
Good luck,
Phillip

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I that is a good question, I don’t think this series III does , it’s sucha an automatic habit, I don’t even think about it.

I sis connect the brown and the red/white wires as a jump and the starter did turn over. Other than wiring, this is pointing to the starter relay, I guess it needs more than his a a click. :grin:

Keep you posted, I will be picking up a starter relay in the AM tomorrow.

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Not relevant for the ‘series’ Jaguars, Phillip…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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Status update. Well I picked up a Starter relay. Not cheap! $100.00 or close to it. and she chooches!! I went for a drive; and boy do I miss driving this car. it is an absolute dream to drive!

now when the high beams come on, then left headlight goes out. I know I’ve dealt with this in the past - about 4 years ago or so it seems. and for the life of me I can’t remember… actually I think it is or has to do with the wires going into the wings. ugh… Well not to day. :slight_smile:

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I presume you mean the LH outboard headlight goes out, specifically.

Cleaning the headlight fuses and wiring connectors under the headlight fuse box often solves mysteries like this.

However, it might be as simple as the LH outboard bulb, which is dual filament type, has a dead “high” filament

Cheers
DD

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Yep, doug you are correct. LH outboard light. When I got the car, the head lamps were a light show non of the head lamps would be on at the same time. I’m pretty sure this was my doing considering I re-wrapped the wiring harness yesterday where the local resident population had eaten the fabric off the wires. I probably should’ve checked before I got everything buttoned up. Ugh… Good case of note to self…

Thanx
Mark

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To stress Doug’s point, Mark - there are four headlight fuses; right high/left high/right low/left low…and four relevant wires…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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