A (Wheel) Weighty Question

Did someone suggest it should be doused with water??

Oy vey.

My mistake. Apologies extended.

Gordon

Magnesium burns under water, doesn’t it?

At P&WA I worked a lot with titanium, which burns much like magnesium. A typical jet engine is probably 50% titanium by weight – the cooler end, obviously, you don’t want the titanium parts getting hot. It requires special equipment of some sort to extinguish a titanium fire, and P&WA had its own fire department. So, do you think that fire department had that special equipment? Hah! If you had a titanium fire going, you were expected to call the fire department so they could come posthaste with sirens and flashing lights in order to help you watch it burn.

In a hush-hush program I worked on, we got to disassemble and analyze an engine developed by – well, let’s just say by the other guys. While we only used titanium up to a certain point in the compressor, they used it the entire length of the compressor. But, they actually have more experience with titanium than we do (it is said you can go into a hardware store and buy a titanium shovel), so we wondered if there was something unique about the alloying agents they used that kept this stuff from igniting. So we sent a sample off to the lab where they subjected it to a flammability test that simulating a malfunctioning jet engine. Lo and behold, it burnt like a Roman candle! They didn’t know anything we didn’t, they just didn’t care. If the engine catches fire, pull the yellow-and-black handle and hit the silk. Try a different airplane tomorrow.

Yes, and the water, because of the high heat generated, dissociates into its constituent parts, making the fire worse.

It can only be extinguished by being submerged under something that smothers it.

Actually, IIRC from that classic “crowd killer” crash at the 24 Hours of Monte Carlo (or whatever it was called) race back in the '50s involving the Mercedes racer (the one the Jag won by “default”) when the Mercedes ignited following the crash it was b/c of its “innovative light-weight magnesium frame”. :fire: The big mistake that ensued was that the fire control guys attempted to put it out using water, either not realizing it was magnesium or not knowing that you are not supposed to use water in such a fire. The water caused the magnesium to explode into multiple fine fiery pieces, spraying the nearby crowd and crew with the flaming super-hot bits. :open_mouth: There is supposed to be some chemical firefighting agent that is used on those fires instead. :fire_extinguisher: :fire_engine:

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I remember, in a chemistry class in school in the early '60’s, the professor showed us how a sliver of magnesium ignited and exploded when dropped in a container of water - when I asked how the car “mag” wheels where not affected, he explained that the wheels where constructed of magnesium (for lighter weight) and other alloys therefore the igniting properties where diminished - Tex Terry, II - 1991 XJS V12 Classic Coupe, 1986 XJS V12 Coupe - 5/12/2020 2239hrs. EDT USA

From Wikipedia:

“A common misconception persists regarding the danger caused by magnesium’s flammability. But new improved alloys have been developed over the past fifty years, with no reportable incidents of magnesium wheels catching fire. In fact, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has conducted wide-ranging tests over the past decade, concluding that the potential flammability of magnesium is no longer a concern—and even ruling to allow its use in aircraft cabins.”

Entire article:

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Reminds me of my high school chemistry class in which the teacher kept a large chunk of potassium submerged in a sealed jar completely filled with gasoline (yes, gasoline). He explained that contact of pure 100% potassium with any amount of water will cause it to begin to flame up and eventually explode, :fire: so you have to keep it submerged in a liquid that contains NO water (and so that it won’t get “dew” or condensation on it out of the atmosphere). Of course, one of our juvenile delinquent-type classmates who had a big grudge against our teacher, delighted upon learning of this, decided one night to break into the classroom through a window, open the jar and flush the potassium chunk down the toilet in the nearest boys’ room. Apparently shortly after the chunk made its journey through the plumbing it caught fire and, due to the confined space, exploded, doing some major damage to the plumbing under ground. :smile:

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LeMans… Monte Carlo was a rally.

The magic word: alloy

LOL - I had originally put “LeMans”, but then got to thinking it was “Monte Carlo” instead and changed it. Glad you knew which one was correct! :smile:

Yep its ok though he’s been permanently banned.

Well, it’s those useless kind of bits of information (“Jeopardy knowledge”) for which I earn the big bux.

:roll_eyes:

If the aircraft is lucky enough to be at an airport, then, if I remember correctly, it would be doused in a fire retardant foam. Pretty sure no water…fuel, oil, electrical considerations…

Not me!!! I worked in nsurance claims. if one called, me I’d say, not I call the firee department!!!

:upside_down_face:

I seem to recall that eary VW engione cases were magnesium. gee, had I knwn that, I might have ahd a real bonfoire someplace “safe”.

Recall the sparklers of old for the Fourty> magnesium gave off grea sparks when lit wth a punk!!!

Carl

It was a mag-aluminum alloy.