Did a search for the topic of adding seat belts to XK’s but did not find a discussion of the impact on judging the car. Several of the pictures in this section show seat belts installed in a representative number of all models. Will the presence of seat belts cost points at a showing of the car? Did those of you with belts installed use a Jaguar specific belt?
I was looking at this thread recently discussing dealer installed seatbelts.
Obviously there was no factory option from the period so one would suppose that anything you do will be a mark down in concours unless theres an exemption for safety equipment if such a thing exists.
Perhaps the answer you’re looking for will be in the JCNA judging guide or such.
My copy of the JCNA Judging Guide for XK120 says “Seat Belts if installed should be period correct for the year of the car.” Presumably that means they are allowing a safety exemption if you use the old fashioned parachute buckles.
When I was doing TD rallies I was required to put seat belts in the 140. I was also a judge for the XK class. Two comments: 1. If you have seat belts you were not penalized for them in competition if they were in good condition, 2. If you have an open car like an OTC you may do more harm by installing them. Mine are tucked under the seats when I drive the car on a tour and are not secured to anything but the sheet metal with 1/4 " bolts. Even if they are worn they will pull out in an accident. Your chance of survival improves if you are thrown from the car.
I designed, built and welded in a separate subframe for mounting seatbelts in my OTS. They’re secured with grade 5 7/16-20 hex bolts that pass through the floorboards into heavy grade 8 7/16-20 nuts tack welded to the underside of the subframe. This is a lap belt only solution. The next step may be designing a bolt-in subframe that tucks behind the tonneau crash roll to allow static shoulder belt anchorages above, behind and between the seats - ie. shoulder belts anchored to the middle of the cockpit rather than the conventional placement above and behind the doors, allowing unimpeded stowage of the ragtop. TBD.
Apropos to being better off if thrown from the car:
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Nick, thank you for posting the data from CR. As a physician, this was common knowledge but nice to see the reference. Will have to decide how to handle this issue. We have added belts to every car we have had from 1959 Karmen Ghia to 1953 Bentley as well as a 1965 Barracuda. This car probably will not be an exception. Just need to decide which ones to buy.
Lewis,
I’ve been looking for “period” seat belts for my XK 140 FHC in the past. See attached pdf doc with some of the information I gathered. We know that the 1960 Mk2 Saloon did (or could) have seat belts fitted made by BRITAX. If you’re looking for “period correct” then probably this is the closest you can get. Unfortunately there are many others looking for these as well.
There’s also some information available on the subject in the Jaguar Lovers “Saloon” section.
Bob K.
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Thank you for the information about the Britax belts. We may have to use a modern Jaguar belt. The belt used in the Bentley was a modern three point inertial reel Rolls belt which works fine. Putting a three point in a FHC may take more than I want to do for the shoulder portion.
The OTS is just dangerous in an accident. Head on collisions with seat belts result in an impact with the steering wheel and shaft for the driver and the passenger 's head impacts the dash. In a rollover situation the wind screen offers no structural support so your head and shoulders are the impact point.
Drive very carefully and defensively.
Put belts in period: I had wide competition lap and shoulder belts in my OTS. just off center head on, both cars totaled, I would be dead dead dead without them…be in a head on or near head or…or severe front side…and you will be dead dead dead without them. FInd an accident study that says thrown out is the way to survive. .OK…run off the road into a ditch/embanked shoulder and you will wish to be thrown…but…Millions more direct crashes without roll over. As to fire…being conscious is the way to survive and get out…compared to being crumpled in a mess…down by the clutch, or steering wheel thru chest.
Anchoring is greatly improved with some steel sheet and wide washers and some thought to angles and some study of older SCCA or similar rules. Why would your rallies require belts–if thrown out was the way to go to survive? To read maps better…c’mon.
Nick
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My crash…totaling both cars…was in a 53 OTS…near head on…with lap and shoulder belts my injury was a cut on my lower chin…I stepped out OVER the doors that were jammed shut…car bend back to there…: a cut on my chin…butterfly bandages no stitches. Walked away…the first people to the scene could not believe I was the driver…
Nick
I used this, with snap hook ends to allow the hood to be put up/down.
The price is less the $120 a side, and they work well, IMHO.
Mine are mounted solidly enough to provide meaningful occupant restraint in a low to modest speed collision, and belt orientation is very close to being compliant with SCCA race car mount guidelines (so long as you are less than 5’9” tall).
No, I did not custom build a new subframe for the vehicle to ensure the setup is compliant with the newest safety belt regulations. But, I feel it is safer than nothing. In a high speed head on collision it is without a doubt totally/dramatically inadequate and suboptimally mounted.
John
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John, your philosophy is the same we used on the Bentley. The belts need to work once. Thanks for the link. Will study the FHC again to see if three point really feasible. In a cockpit that small, upper body restraint becomes very important.
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Lewis, I am unfamiliar with the rear structure of a FHC (the prettiest of all the body styles). On an old Sunbeat Talbot Alpine I had, I got at installer to hide the shoulder belt retractor in the boot, mounted to the inner wheel well. The belt snuck into the cabin via a small slit In the rear bulkhead.
Perhaps something similar could be done with your FHC?
The light blue one in this gallery:
https://www.quickfitsbs.com/gallery_sunbeam.php
There is an upholstered space between the back of the seats and the bulkhead for the trunk in the FHC. The two six volt batteries are in a tray in that space which causes a long run for the belt. Once the Bentley is is photographed for sale, I will study the situation a bit more.
does anyone sell old fashion aircraft type seat belt material and aluminum overcentre clips lap belts to suit XK140 roadster?
I bought some seat belt parts from Wag-Aero. Specifically, I wanted the chrome end fittings for my belts. They may have what you want.
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One advantage of the Wag Aero belts is the single point mounting for the shoulder belts which are in the form of an upside down “Y”, with the arms of the Y going over the shoulders. This mounting point can be a bar behind the seat, a luggage shelf in a two seater, or go to the floor with reinforcement.
