Advice on Restoring Knockoffs? Also, Originality Questions

You might want to check the date code on those tires before using them… :wink:

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Here are some pictures of NOS knockoffs fresh out of the British Leyland box from the 60’s. The letters are painted from the factory. A good car wash with a pressure washer for the wheels does not do the paint any good. Not sure how many of you had bought your car new off of the showroom and noted whether the letters were painted or not. Maybe this will help put this question to rest.

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I appreciate your optimism, Dick, but I’m afraid it might be misplaced. :person_shrugging: :wink:. Remember the bonnet pin bumper recently?

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Hey Dick,

From my limited knowledge, the British Leyland Company was created in January of 1968 with the merger of BMC and Leyland. So, if your spinners are in British Leyland boxes, wouldn’t that mean that it is most likely the spinners came after the merger in 1/1968?

Here is a link to Jay Leno’s garage. He just found an original 1963 in a garage. It is clear that the original letters were painted in 1963.

On the painting . You may want to use, one shot sign painters paint. Get a half pint. And a really small sign quill. I would let the paint flow into the letters off the brush. Let them dry and remove excess with sharp plastic . I did this for a living 40 years ago. each one could take a hour or so

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Indeed, BL was created in 1968 so those NOS ones would be after that date. I bought two sets of NOS hubs and they were painted. All good information though and the more we get the better. Current theories are:

  1. All hubs were painted
  2. Hubs were not painted until S2 production in 1968
  3. US distributors painted the hubs to help sales, the Factory did not. Distributors did remedial paint work on cars once they landed anyway
  4. Only USA bound cars had painted hubs, ROW did not. Bear in mind chrome wires were standard in the US but were a chargeable option in other markets.
  5. Putting new hubs on a car to smarten it up was easy and after 1968 they would have been painted.
  6. Owners ‘customised’ their hubs for more impact on their new prized possesion
  7. Painting the hubs was labour intensive so why would the notoriously tight fisted Lyons agree to spend more money on a cosmetic improvement?

Maybe worth checking with XK and saloon owners for their experiences? All thoughts, with supporting evidence, most welcome.

Trivia: Sir William and his farm manager were prosecuted and fined for adding water to their milk churns to increase profits!

David

I really wish Jay would let someone come in and do an up close photo documentation of that car!

Anyway, I’ve looked through Porter. 60 year old photography can only be so definitive but pictures on pages 233, 377, 380, and 412 to my eyes show a lack of black paint. A photo on 385 does appear to have black paint.

I looked through the brochures here on Jag-Lovers. I don’t see anything definative. `

The one picture in Haddock/Mueller on page 248 seems to show black paint. A quick look at the Chris Harvey book doesn’t show anything definitive but a few pictures seem to suggest a lack of paint.

Speaking of the Leno Car and others, I wonder if the Jaguar letters tend to collect brake dust or dirt in general, making them look dark?

@Dick_Maury

I rest my case.

Ask him: given your precise nature, history, and motivation, he might allow it.

Again, no one can be sure if the owner put fresh hubs on the car or not. After 10 years of ownership the original hubs would have been beaten into submission so a fresh set for $10 would have been tempting.

So was the paint done at the Factory?

This was the era were talking about…can you really imagin this factory guy painting your hubs😂

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But it’s also possible that one of the previous owners painted them.

Who here hasn’t bought a new car and soon began to “personalize” it?

I submit this photo of 2 of my original knockoffs. I tackled the top one with with dish soap and a finger nail brush. I would say there is no evidence whatsoever of paint in the letters. There is a little bit of a rust bloom. The bottom one is as found after years of garage storage. I really do think they collect dirt that makes them look “painted” if photographed from any distance. For what its worth, these would be “American” knockoffs.

I am still surprised no one has come up with a period closeup photograph of knockoffs. They are such an iconic part of the Etype design.

I do have this period photograph, taken in September 1961, of a fellow and a car that live right up the road from me. An American car, photo is not definitive. I have sent him an email to call me. If he can remember if they were painted or not, I will be impressed but it’s worth a try.

It does have wide white walls. Just saying!

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I hope they are not " body coloured" :grinning:

Jaguar would silk screened them to do them fast.

Why? They could sell all the cars they produced. Arthur Whitaker, Jaguar chief buyer schooled by Lyons, would not countenance paying an extra few pennies for a better tachometer let alone buggering about with silk screening on four parts per car that would quickly ink in the engravings themselves with road dirt.

Ask yourselves if you were in that position would you do it? Britain was recovering from the war and exports were king, Jaguar were not profitable and margins were slim.

Happy to be proved wrong. Having said that the oil cap was inked in black. Carcheology at its best!

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Facts that some may not recall. Great Britain only paid off their Land/ Lease debt just a few years ago.

In actuality, thank goodness Sir Willy did that! Otherwise Jaguar would never have made it.

Surely Jaguar would not ink them themselves, the supplier would be expected to supply them as agreed. Arthur Whittaker was no doubt canny enough to negotiate a price that meant the cost of supplying them painted would, or could have been palatable. Done in sufficient numbers, the cost per unit would have been negligible.

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