Air Intake Aperture aka Bonnet Opening: I need profile advice - Final Update Added

That’s not that bad.

To repair that undertray could be done in situ roughly (by the measure of most, here) enough do that nobody could tell, unless they got on their knees and looked under.

To do it “correctly” would require its removal.

blow up the 2nd image underside,lots of damage,hard to see in the images but the whole underside is pushed up.Came down a steep hill at 80kmh depression across the road at apex of dip,suspension compressed and BANG into the depression.

Yea… I know. Tweety’s was worse. Tweety’s got caved-in by an apex tire.

It came out acceptably.

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Certainly they could have, but that was not their market. And everyone thinks their boss is cheap.
But now you do have me curious. Where was Jaguar pinching pennies compared compared to the rest in their market, or even 20% above their market?
The twin cam, alloy head, triple Su carbs, 265 hp?
The torsion bar front suspension?
Lucas and Smith components regardless of reputation were not cheap?
IRS when very few had them?
4 wheel disk brakes when nobody had them?
Leather seat facings, which even today is often all one gets when they pay extra for leather?
Reasonable amount of chrome, even on the resonators?
Wire wheels with knockoffs?
Wood and alloy steering wheel?
Full instrumentation and toggle switches?
Monocoque chassis with tubular subframe?
Lined trunk when many had only rubber mats?
Covered headlights?
Body panels that fit above average for the day, and same with paint?

About the only thing that I can think of at the moment that was “cheap” was the non synchro first gear transmission. And it was durable.

So help me out, please list all the penny pinching they did.

Arthur Whittaker was Jaguar’s materials buyer and was clearly tutored by Bill Lyons. For example Smiths offered the rev counter in two grades, standard and Rolls Royce quality. The latter cost an extra £1 so Whittaker went for the cheaper unit. Dealers, especially in the US, begged Jaguar to increase the price of the E-Type and use higher quality parts but Lyons refused.

Exactly my point why would anyone put a Rolls Royce Tach in a car costing much less than a Rolls. And not only that an awful lot of those tachs still work. Mine had never been touched.
Tom

Let’s go back in the time machine shall we

image2.jpegimage3.jpeg
Sorry the pictures took up the text
I’m at a computer now
So all the above pictures we consider ourselves friends
From Norman Dewis to Brian Redman to Michael Quinn Gary Bartlett and so on
Most were all there as Adults and have always confirmed what I was saying
The rear is a master piece , the old moss box was a joke
The bellows brakes were terrible and the old dynamo in the 60s just didn’t keep up
Go to you tube Norman was very vocal on MANY interviews along with the othersBrian was a lot more colorful
As well😌
It’s a known fact from old parts in new cars to XK engines long in the tooth for 40 years!
No one loves Jaguar more than me
No one
Someone find the video of when Norman has to sell the used racing tires at the track to get a ride home :grin:

To get the thread back onto Harveys original topic I will relate my experience with my 67 that had a relatively undamaged centre section but a badly beat up belly pan. As I had bought a lot of replacement panels from Chuck at MM I contacted him to ask if the lower opening was a mirror image of the upper. The answer was no. He does not lend or sell templates understandably and while he could make me a patch panel which would be pretty pricey, being the honest guy he was he is, he recommended that I spend a few hours with a hammer and dolly to reshape the metal into where it looked right and where the metal naturally wanted to go. At that point and only then cut out any really thin or rust or torn spots. I ended up with the upper half of the opening being a pretty even oval shape and the lower half of the opening being slightly larger with a more pronounced curve at each end and a less curved profile in the centre. To my eye it matches most of the pictures of the openings I have observed. It is my understanding from reading the bonnet shaping articles in Chuck’s blog that the very early bonnets were slightly different shaped than the later ones like mine.
It would be great if any of the listers who restore these cars professionally could chime in with an informed opinion.

Geoff , He is spot on…remember on a series 2 bonnet they just sliced the front mouth opening and beat the panels back.
When you strip a series 2, the amount of lead load and bondo/scratch filler are huge, they were hand made.
There was little science on those panels.

They look pretty symmetrical to me (allowing for camera distortion!


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I just got back from a long day driving 3 1/2 hours to the south to visit the Coventry Foundation in Columbia, SC. George Camp gave me an ample and complete tour. What an amazing collection of stuff, all donated from Jaguar owners. I got a late start so was not able to spend as much time there as I would have liked but I suspect I could spend days there and never reach the bottom of the resources available. All should try and make a visit if possible.

My primary mission was to review some “blueprints” that they have in their possesion. All I can say is that the draftsman certainly was under the impression that the bonnet opening was a symetric flattened oval. I would say the first picture David has posted (the white car under the Vauxhall banner) is the most representative of what I observed on the drawings. I was hoping to strike gold and find section drawings as are used to describe boat hulls but alas, nothing of that sort, although they must exist somewhere? Regardless, I remain convinced that I need to make my bonnet center section “reflect” the shape of my lower nose section in order to get a result that will be authentic.

Again, everyone should make an effort to at least peruse their website and visit there in person if possible.

I don’t know if this one came up on your thread here, but Nick Saltarelli posted it on a thread I started about color change. It is a 100 point car. Here is the front end.
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2013/automobiles-rm-auctions-in-association-with-sothebys-n09045/lot.138.html


If that isn’t symmetrical, I don’t know what is.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Follow the light line around the edge of the mouth. It is very distinctly different from top to bottom particularly at the outside edges of the lower opening. This seems like the type of thing that needs to be determined by making templates from a certified unmolested bonnet. Perhaps someone who has one would like to do that?

Ours has English “Goodwood” 4 piston front calipers and brand new Dunlop style “front” calipers in the rear. We have the bellows. Brakes are perfectly fine. I can’t understand guys who say they need the ‘torque’ of the 4.2 or the brakes. Maybe stock 3.8 brakes are somehow lacking, but the bellows seems like a non issue. Granted, it was considered for replacement, but perhaps due to complexity or expense. I’ve had to make several very hard stops in the only 350 miles or so since completion, but it stops very well indeed. On short 100 mile trips the seats are similarly just fine (not ideal, now, but fine). The rear calipers are Japanese made original Nissan and may lack the odd pins that the originals had. Hate to say so, but I’d guess the quality is superior to originals.
The Moss box, well that’s another story…

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Geoff, I looked at enough photos now to know that they can be misleading. The opening is inclined forward at the top edge, which adds to the difficulty of getting a good view. That is why I started only looking at photos of light colored cars. You have a better chance of spotting the actual edge of the sheet metal. That said, I would agree the light lines are not symetrical, in that particular photo.
Here is a pretty cool photo I took of a blueprint for the bonnet. It’s a photo of a copy of a copy so bear that in mind. The drawing is noted as Quarter Full Size. The one I was looking at was substantially reduced from that.

You can clearly see the upper and lower rolled edges of the bonnet opening and the horizontal centerline between the upper and lower parts. When I scaled the distance vertically from the centerline to the narrowest point of the top and bottom opening, I got 20 mm up and 21 mm down. This is what I think your eye sees with light colored sheet metal and a much less well lit radiator screen in the background. When I measured from the tangent point of the upper and lower rolled edges I got 25 mm and 30 mm, respectively, the bottom being the larger value! This is what I think you see when looking at light lines. Anyway, I’ve seen enough pictures now to convince me that symetrical, for the actual opening, seems to be common and most visually pleasing.

I just took A 75 miles break in run in the rain past Peter Crespins summer bungalow
I think some are over thinking the opening thing
They all look different and crooked to me!
You realize the average date of birth in 1962 of the line worker was 1910!
Just drive baby!

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Yes, the blueprint is interesting but it is a one dimensional snapshot from the side and does not really show the shape of the mouth, only the vertical dimension at the greatest height. If you were to put faith in that one view of the blueprint then you could argue that the headlight opening is teardrop shaped instead of a wavy egg shape. I am not insisting that I am right and you are wrong, only that to be really sure of the shape an actual template is probably needed.

Geoff, no doubt and I’m not trying to argue a particular point. It is a really complex shape. Somewhere, somehow, they gave instructions to a mold maker and the mold or molds were made. I’ve never had to draw up such a complex shape. Nowdays, they solid model it in CAD and it spits out the xyz coordinates in a format that the 5 axis milling machine can do it’s thing. We are so spoiled.

Anyway, today I spent a 100 dollars on wood at Home Depot and I started building a “buck” for the bonnet. I’m trying to get datum points anyway I can, by hook or crook. I may never return from this rabbit hole!!!

Peter has a very nice summer cottage, BTW :slight_smile:

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My wife, a longtime Beatles and E-type devotee, perceives this picture as a composite. If so a very good one.

Tthough lacking any reflection of George in the superb bonnet paintwork. Maybe just lighting.