Another Reason Not to Own - Tires


(AndyB) #21

My bad. Steve is indeed correct & I didn’t realise the 94 4.0ltr cars had 15” wheels on them. Now am I imagining this or did attydallas3 not say his car had wheels from a 95MY car or was this someone else altogether?

Andy.


#22

Not me, although Superblue’s predecessor before she was totalled out in the wreck (:frowning_face:) was a '95 coupe (“Supercat”) with the 5-spoke wheels.

btw, checking my owner’s manual, it points out that the lattice-style wheels were apparently available in both sizes, with the “cast” wheels being 15" and the “forged” wheels being 16". Not sure what the difference is, but I’m thinking the “forged” wheels were optional and much less common (and probably much more $$s). :thinking:


(equiprx) #23

Pirelli are still making passenger tires and way less than $200 each for P Zeros.
Had to recently buy a set for my Volvo wagon and they are so much better than Micheline.
They also reintroduced Chinturatos(sp) which were the first radials they produced.
Still great tires and not a wallet buster.


(Mark SF) #24

The last set of Pirelli P Zero A/S on the XJR were utter junk. Chronic balance issues that couldn’t be fixed. Many others reporting the same problems on Tirerack. In contrast, the last 3 sets of Michelins I’ve bought were perfect. Just got Michelin Defenders for the XJS. Great tires, and not expensive.

So we’ve got 3 sets of Michelins right now - two cars with Defenders, one with Primacy, and I had Premier A/S before. No issues at all.

The only tires I’ve had cause to regret buying were those Pirellis.

The guy I talked to at the tire place, who runs the Hunter Roadforce balancer, and who deals with all the difficult balancing and pulling issues, told me that Michelin tires are by far the least common to see out of round and lateral pull issues. They are the easiest to balance.


#25

What??? That’s their most expensive tire, no less. Where did you find them and for “less than $200?”, Equip? :open_mouth:


#26

I bought “Mickey-7s” (Michelin’s MXVII, or whatever they call those high $$ ones) from the discount place to go on one of my XJ40s one time. Less than a month later, I was rolling down the service/access road alongside the highway I live on (thank God I was not on the highway) at less than 40 MPH when suddenly the left rear one went amok on me. There was an odd, muffled sound like the air suddenly going all out of it, and then I was quickly down to almost the bare wheel before I could come to a stop. From the look of it, the tire had just suddenly “delaminated” and came unrolled like a giant pinwheel cinnamon roll. :angry: I had seen something similar happen to retread tires, back when they had those around.

I called a tow truck and had my Jag towed directly to the discount place. Of course, b/c I did not purchase the extra $ “road hazard” insurance, the manager tried to argue with me that I must have hit something in the roadway to do that kind of damage to that kind of tire. I assured him I had done no such thing. I’m thinking either that tire had a manuf. defect in it or possibly was too old to even be sold (I know now how to decipher the age of a tire off the sidewall #s, btw - never more than 6 years old!). I remember they had to get the tires ordered from their warehouse in Houston and shipped to me in Dallas originally. That made me kinda suspicious that maybe they had been laying around the warehouse a little too long, esp. if it was in the hot Houston summers w/o a.c. in the warehouse. :thinking: I pointed out to the manager too that lucky I was not on the highway going at a higher speed when it happened, or I might have lost control of my Jag and been badly injured or even killed. :grimacing:

Anyway, in the end, the manager agreed to “pro-rate” my tire, and give me about 90% credit toward another one. I really didn’t want to, but to get the matter behind me I took another Mickey 7 for it. It wasn’t long after that that I got rid of the XJ40, so I don’t know how the other 4 tires fared afterwards. I just knew I’d never buy another Michelin.


(Mark Lee (Pay Pal Patron)) #27

I hate to brake it to you all, but when the tread life gets about half way, these tires don’t stop for shit. My son and I were driving on a lightly rainy day, which is pretty much everyday in Western Washington. when he had to stop a bit sudden, but not a slam on the brakes quick. The tires locked up, as we skidded into the back of a minivan. FML! The damage was minor to the Green XJ6, but the tires shouldn’t have skidded.

After that fateful event. I did a bit of research on the cobras and the review (outside of discount tires) aka consumer reports, tires.com and the like. I guess wet grip is not one of their strong suits.

But I imagine for the most of the forum goers, driving you’re Jaguar on a wet day isn’t something you’d even consider doing. My daily drivers are all pre 90’s XJ’s.

Riken, is a suitable alternative to the P600’s which were the OE tire. What makes the Pirelli tires so special is the W speed rating on a 15" tire. The W rating provides for a stiffer sidewall which will improve handling and the tall side wall wont compromise the ride. The XJ suspension was designed for that OE Pirelli W rated tire. Mitchellin has a classic line of tires that include the XWX tire which is a knock off of the P600 or is it the other way round… Anyway a good tire. As mentioned above Riken is a suitable alternative, but really hard to find. I think Discount tire can order the tire. but I’ve never found one in stock.

After I got the XJ6 straighten’d up, I ditched the Coopers and went to the Radial TA white letters in obviously. BTW. Did you know that the BF Goodrich made a Radial TA with a white wall? Looks pretty damn sharp on my '74 White SWB Series II XJ6. As much as I wanted the P600’s I couldn’t justify the cost. Oh, also Toyo makes a directional tire that will work on the XJ-S my '88 has that tire on it. it’s a pretty good tire except it doesn’t hold air. I’ve never had any luck with Les Schawb tires holding air.

Kingspro is another tire that works on Xj’s it’s an off shoot brand made by Hankook tire. which isn’t too bad. too much sidewall flex for my liking. but it’s a P rated tire, so I can’t expect much. Grip is good on dry and wet; minimal road noise, and doesn’t make the steering feel heavy like the Coopers (on a Series III XJ).

I’m sure I’m going to get flamed on this one…

My two cents on the topic of tires.
This is something I’ve done a ton of research on. Why? because if its woth doing, then its worth over doing. Right?!
Mark


(equiprx) #28

What??? That’s their most expensive tire, no less. Where did you find them and for “less than $200?”, Equip?

Because I’m starting an insurance claim, I happen to have the receipt right in front of me.
4 x Pirelli, P Zeros 235-45-17 97W @ $145.29 each = $581.16.

I went to a local tire shop which was closest to where the AAA flat bed picked me up.
They have a website but I don’t know if they will deliver to the lone star state.
It’s www.trapstire.com
That doesn’t include all the usual add-ons like labor, tax and disposal.
What really killed me were the wheels $463.53 each.
I’m really picky about safety and while I could have easily bought cheaper tires, I went with what I know from my own experience driving over 50 years & a million miles.
I have never had a tire failure, blowout or even a puncture on Pirelli.
My reason for replacement was caused by both left tires and rims hitting the central median.
They may not last as long as other brands but I’ll take short tire life over a short my life.
I drive near the edge, all the time and my tires saved my ass many times.
That doesn’t make me an expert but I don’t classify that as only luck.


#29

Wow, Equip, and that shop is in S.F., no less, which I would think make prices even $$$$ higher. Maybe they just had a surplus of them and needed to unload them (?) How long ago did you buy them? (and LOL - I don’t think they’ll deliver 1,500 or so miles to me - dang!)


(Steve) #30

Do NOT confuse pricing on W-rated 17" tires with 15". As a matter of fact, I have P-zero in 19" that were less than $200/ea. Totally different story.


(Doug Dwyer) #31

While not diminishing your advice or experience you might be interested to know that tire-related accidents are rare.

The NHTSA has good info on this. I can’t remember the exact statistics but something like 4% of all accidents are tire related and, of those, the majority were directly attributable to under-inflation.

If you’re alive (and/or accident-free) today it’s probably due to something else you’re doing right and not your tires :slight_smile:

Cheers
DD


#32

Goodrich Radial TA has raised letters both sides. White on one side, plain rubber on the other. They look beefy on the 6.6 wide starfish rims. Very nice and suit the car in my opinion. Good grip, compound is medium hard, wears well, not noisy.


(Kirbert - author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.) #33

I don’t trust NHTSA data at all. Most of the data they collect is politically motivated, such as keeping careful tabs on who was driving drunk while ignoring who was texting until the public demanded it. And they steadfastly support the notion that SUV’s are safe while they are killing people right and left. In this particular case, I’d be willing to bet good money that the NHTSA’s data on accidents caused by tires only address the tires that actually came apart at speed and don’t reflect anything to do with the tires that lost traction when it was needed.


(Doug Dwyer) #34

Yes, precisely, the report I read pertained to tire failures. Since I was responding to a post specifically mentioning tire failures it seemed apropos to me :slight_smile:

However, I (unintentionally) mis-characterized things by saying ‘tire related’…which is obviously more broad than ‘related to tire failure’.

As for accidents caused when a tire has lost traction, well, that gets a bit iffy. Is that a tire problem or a driver problem? Driving within the ability of the tires to maintain traction would fall under the responsibility of the driver, wouldn’t it?

Cheers
DD


(Greg) #35

Having tried several sport tire makes over the last 20 years, here is my opinion, for what it’s worth-
Pirelli - Fun tire! Best performance, good in rain, but wears down FAST!
Hankook - same as Pirelli
Michelin- Amazing in rain, lasts a LONG time, but not great performance.
Avon - great tire, good in rain, but got punctures very easy.
BF Goodrich- good performance, good in rain, but VERY noisy once 1/2 worn.
Goodyear - decent performance, good in rain, good wear.

I tend to buy goodyear for my daily drivers because they last a bit longer and handle decent, a good compromise. For my Jaguar, I’d love to get pirellis. Best performance. But I tend to only get 15-20000 miles on pirellis. That will be a good 7 years for my xjs.


(equiprx) #36

Doug,
I bought these P-Zeros in April 2017, and Traps Tire had to order them.
The shop is in a town called South San Francisco, and I think they mostly do trucks.
I never did business with them before, but they did ‘pass my interview’.

Back when I first had to order tires for my XJS, I bought them from an online store.
Either Discount Tire or Tire Rack, the price was right and the installer was close.
They were shipped to an installer a few blocks from Traps Tire shop.
When they came in, before they installed them, I checked the date code.
I also told them that the balance must stand up to a 120mph test.
Also, I dropped off my recently refurbished Diamond Turned Five Spokes.

I do attribute my tire carma to something else, in addition to my tire preference.
Very early after getting licensed, I had a Firestone tire explode while driving.
Fortunately It sent me off the road and not into any traffic.
That scared the hell out of me, knowing what could have happened.

When I was taking the required driving training course in high school,
everyone in class was tested for reaction time, I scored the highest ever.
I also trained myself to have a heightened awareness of what’s around me.
One reason I was a successful yacht racer was a good sense of time and distance.
I was able to determine where, both I and my competitors would be when crossing.

My eyes are always scanning way in front of me so I don’t get any surprises.
The mirrors on my cars are adjusted so I never have to interpret what I see.
Only a millisecond after I glace at them I know where I am in the world.
I try to keep track of what/who are in my blind spots left and right.
When I know I don’t have options around me, I either slow down or accelerate so I do.

Of the few accidents I’ve been involved in, they were all from low speed crashes.
Most people loose that heightened awareness, then they make mistakes.
I have always done my own break jobs and safety checks.
Whenever I have my tires off the car, I check for potential punctures.
That may be why I have never had a puncture on a Pirelli tire.

Pirelli tires wear out very rapidly for me, if I get 20K from them I feel lucky.
The reason they ware out is because they use a soft sticky rubber.
I never do burnouts, or use tire dressing and keep them on the high side of inflation.
Rain is my favorite weather.
I stake my life on my car and tires.


(Doug Dwyer) #37

Hugely important.

Driving is a serious thing. Many drivers are far too casual, IMO.

The method taught to me, which I passed down to my kids, is to actually have running spoken-to-self dialog of everything happening around you and everything you see

It goes something like this, all one continuous sentence:

“Motorcycle on my right is in-and-out of my blind spot, white SUV in oncoming lane has turn signal on for left turn, red BMW ahead on my right is trying to exit a parking lot, traffic signal ahead just turned yellow, group of pedestrians waiting to step into the crosswalk ahead, pickup truck ahead on my right not staying entirely in its own lane…”

There’s something about actually saying the words, even if only in your head, that makes a difference.

Cheers
DD


(Greg) #38

I had drivers ed in early 80s, we were taught defensive driving from videos from the 60s. Pretty much assume everyone around you us about to do something wrong and slam into you. Touch wood, haven’t had an accident my entire years of driving, 38 years!


(Paul Wigton) #39

When I began piloting vehicles, at around age 6 (go-karts, then bikes) Dad told me exactly that: assume everyone around you is a bleedin’ idiot, and count on them to do the stupidest possible thing…and you’ll live longer.

When I began riding motorcycles (Dad had ridden Harleys and Indians, beginning in the late 20s) he also told me a thing that saved my bacon, more than once: ride a bike as if it had the dimensions of a car.

That’s why I cringe when I see lane splitting, in California…:persevere:

3 million-odd miles later, two accidents, one my fault, one not my fault.


(Mark SF) #40

VChances are you had lost air earlier, probably through a puncture, leading to overheating and tread separation. Most tire failures are due to overheating from under inflation.

Treads don’t just fall off any quality tires for no reason, Michelin included.

Last week I was on the freeway in my Volvo, when the warning light came on for tire pressure. Took the next exit, and found the left rear half flat and hissing, with a nail in it. I was a hundred yards from a great tire place and on my way in half an hour with the puncture fixed.

Before TPMS, that would almost certainly have led to complete destruction of the tire, and maybe a nasty accident. Thanks to congress for mandating the system! You just saved me $200 at least, maybe my life.