Like it says, really. Should I go for the original item, or the smaller hi-torque modern option?
Opinions please!
A vote for original, I greased the Bendix, cleaned the commutators and put in new brushes and I’ve never had any trouble with mine.
Same with my two pushrod cars where there isn’t really any other option, I restored them and they work fine. Even restored the solenoid on the '38.
2 Likes
Roger;
As Rob R said, clean & grease everything… AND go a HUGE step farther… or, at least consider it…
I had BOTH my 120’s Starter and Generator rebuilt (by a fellow who ONLY rebuilt BOSCH and LUCAS stuff!)… and I DO mean TOTALLY Rebuilt!! I had both sets of Field Coils removed from each unit (it took several months to obtain the proper field coil screws!)… had the cases cleaned and replated (I nickle plated the Generator’s case! That little job took around ten hours!! lotsa surface area!!)… the field coils were checked for 100% continuity THEN I had the rebuilder correctly rewrap the coils… all the wire bits either got new insulation OR new wire and, of course, NEW Lucas Brushes! (NOT a set of “recarved” GM or Ford brushes!!)… When all was said and done, everything in the two units was new or rebuilt like new!!
The “test” is, how fast does the starter spin?? It winds-up and screams like a banshee (this is a good thing!) AND the Generator puts-out some voltage!! (and amps!)
Originally, the rebuilder said it would take him three months to complete the rebuild process… It took exactly ONE YEAR!! Were it not for the fact that the two units work like brand new, I might complain a little…
Personally, I think the “biggest problem” with the Lucas Generators and Starters “not working” or “not being repairable” is NOT with the units themselves, BUT with the “rebuilder”… One CANNOT simply wipe-out the old grease and oil, slap-in a pair of brushes that come close to fitting then proclaim the units “rebuilt”… One MUST actually TOTALLY REBUILD these LUCAS Units!!
Charles Ch# 677556.
Thanks Charles, sounds like you now have a very shiny starter motor!
Not sure I’d go quite that far. However, a commutator clean-up (careful cleaning, and separating the segments with a hacksaw blade, maybe getting it turned if scored) would be important, checking the coils, checking and very carefully lubeing the bearings, then fitting Lucas brushes ought to do it if the Bendix parts are OK. Luckily NOS Lucas brushes are easier to get here than either GM or Ford ones.
1 Like
Roger, your earlier post from a few days ago indicated your XK140 came to you with a 104 tooth ring gear. a 1965 Lucas starter, and a damaged bell housing. You noted that you now have the correct 132 tooth ring gear and a replacement bell housing.
Your Lucas starter will need to have a 10 tooth pinion gear in good condition, but unfortunately these pinions are now pretty much unobtanium. This is one of the reasons many XK owners are switching to a modern high torque starter.
My correct date-coded starter does have a good 10-tooth pinion in place - however, I’ve just been looking through Viart, which states it should be 11-tooth. Please would someone confirm tooth number?
Thanks
Roger
Roger
The Viart XK 150 Bible is incorrect, and Viart is aware of the mistake. Its a 10 tooth pinion required on a 132 flywheel.
As Mike mentioned the 10 tooth pinions are unobtainable, however I was able to find one on E bay in the US about 8 months ago. I was extremely lucky. right place right time i guess.
To preserve my original starter and pinion I decided to install a high torque starter. which I am very happy with so far, less power required and much faster rotation and half the weight and smaller for installation, makes a bit of a weird noise but its not a crash system, rather an engagement then turn system. and the pinion is introduced from the engine side rather than the clutch side, if you understand my explanation.
1 Like
Roger, my spare ‘140 starter, seemingly dated “2 55” has ten teeth.
Thanks chaps, I did wonder.
I’ve just bought one cheap on ebay, which I was planning to check over and make a bit smarter. It’s dated May '55, which is spot-on for my car. It was advertised as having a new pinion gear, correct for XK140. Photo attached - is this pinion indeed correct?
I admit I do like the modern pre-engaged starter (Mini, Mustang and even the Cobra have one - the last two are difficult to see in position). Throwing the teeth together has always made me wince.
Roger,
“XK 120 Explored” (amended version) mentions the (correct) 10 teeth version. I guess that “XK 140 Explored” will be corrected as well in this respect.
In case of doubt always look at the Lucas data: Pinion & Sleeve 291101 has 10 teeth indeed.
It might be difficult to find a new or better one as they were not widely used by Lucas. I had the same problem but was able to find one using the table below. especially in the UK you might find spare parts for Commer Lorries that had this Pinion (like I did).
Bob K.
Thanks Bob - does the one in my photo look correct? I don’t have an old one to compare it with. It was sold as good for 140, but as a new pinion it has no numbers on it. I presume the size is right - or not? I don’t know where the seller found the pinion, it doesn’t look like NOS, the metal looks new.
That big spring is for early 120 starters. Simon and Gary show the correct spring.
The starters shown by Gary and Simon are the type originally supplied to the XK140 (with 10-tooth pinions).
There was a posting about modern starters (I think from Tom Brady) awhile back. That posting indicated that a 10-tooth pinion on a modern starter would have engagement issues. If I remember right, the advice was to have a 9 tooth pinion on the modern starters.
Mine isn’t a modern starter, the date code is 1955. It just seems to have a larger pinion gear than the ones posted in other’s photos. I don’t know what’s changed, but the one I have also has a fine return spring for the pinion between the gear and the motor body (around the shaft). I can’t see that on the other photos. I wonder if there is a retracting spring inside the sleeved cover (that mine also doesn’t have)?
Not sure mine would work in a 140 - although if it’s correct for 120 it should. I’ll see if I can find a correct one.
I have 2 spare starter motors that came with my XK150. The one on the left is stamped 2606A 1 56
M456G 6049 12V
The one on the right is stamped
26140B 7 66
M45G GC70 12V
What are the from and are they of use to anyone?
Roger,
The others have already answered your question and you understand that it is not original. Cannot answer the next question whether it works or not.
I’ve seen this Pinion type on the Mk 1 with 2.4 engines (see photo) but only in combination with the less powerful M418G starter.
Bob K.
