C-Type Tools from 1953?

Might take a while to find my source… But in any case it’s from the category: “proudly stolen elsewhere”…

Bob K.

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Hi Rob…iv seen those jacks mentioned befor as a C type jack…im assuming its hydraulic…the foot is different to the one in 53ctype photo above…Steve

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Steve,

So you want to see what’s underneath the LH seat cushion on the picture below?
Sorry to tease you, but cannot help you any further than this… This is XKC 011 as far as I know.

Bob K.

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Are these original seats…the one on the right looks to have a thicker base, longer, taller, deeper…they have been re trimmed…from this blog along with the Norman Dewis comment re tool box Jaguar "Mille Miglia" C Type: 2010
Seat 001 (3)

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This is not XKC011 which is a car undergoing restoration in the USA and has been off the road since 1960’s.
This is XKC047 and car never driven/raced in period by stirling moss.

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Perhaps there was a version with a lighter weight and/or wider foot. The lever on the left raises it, and the T handle on the right releases the pressure. No doubt the desire was quick raising and lowering; hydraulic operation would be faster than the screw jack and ratchet handle of the XK120.

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Steve,

Your memory is better than mine…

These are some examples of C type seats. Both in leather and Bedford Cord. Note they changed shape a bit over time, so very difficult to say in detail what is correct. In any case no pleats.,

Bucket seats XKC034

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Ok, a couple of updates.


Here is a shot of the passenger seat.

There is a hinged lid on top, and it’s about 6" deep. Most C-types don’t have the proper passenger seat toolbox due usability. All the previous photos in this thread are of cut down passenger seats.
Rob, that is the correct jack! It was also used an Aston Martin DB2/3 (that’s the one in your photos) The hook was changed so it slipped under the chassis tube of the C-type like this.

Here is the list of tools from the real build sheets:


Great discussion! Let me know if you have any additional questions.

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Wow…that really is a tall seat base…great info…thanks for posting…Steve

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You really need to be careful with Jaguar related Jacks - Jaguar always sourced their Jacks from 1936 onwards, from initially Britool, becoming SMITHS from 1949 onwards with XKs, with the Mark VII saloons onwards sourcing from KING DICK. But Britool, Smiths and King Dick were MAJOR companies that made a number of basic-model Jacks, that they would customize/configure to suit the particular needs of the customer, and in this case of the C-type Jack this is basically a standard model of SMITHS Jack, with the particular Hydraulic/JACKALL range of Jacks potentially sold/used by several different end users, but each end-use customer would specifically customise its exact build detail to suit their application. So the particular customised Hydraulic/Jackall Jack that Jaguar allocated its Part No C.6174 to will be unique to the C-type Jaguar, as indeed was its accompanying C.6510 Lever, or Jack Handle not yet mentioned in this string. I have no idea what brand/model of car that used the Hydraulic/Jackall jacks as pictured in Robs link to the ‘classic-british-jacks’ site, bearing in mind the content in this site is as good as who contributes to it - but none of these Jacks are C.6174 C-type Jacks. You have to presume that a genuine C.6174 is probably a very rare beast, with probably little more , if any, ever made apart from the 50 required for the C-types Homologation - so good luck finding an original. Its a bit of a secret world amongst C-type owners and potential owners/enthusiasts, but to date I am only aware (first hand) of three surviving, original C.6174 Jacks, albeit I am sure there are a lot more… There is potential for non-Jaguar Hydraulic/Jackall Jacks to me modified to replicate a C.6174, but that is very dependent on just how different the donor Jack is, noting apart from the obvious differences in the Lifting Arm, the overall length of the main tube, and the actuating top-mechanism, there are also many age related evolution of detail, such as the branding/lettering around the foot, so you really need to hopefully start with at least a same 1951-53 period made Jack… Exactly the same dilemma these days as all the replicated SMITHS/ STEVENSON XK120 Jacks, done to very variable standards - accurate to nothing close to accurate.

One immediate clue, and I stand to be corrected/better educated by those genuinely knowledgeable on these Jacks, but the genuine C.6174 Jacks I have seen, actually have C.6174 stamped into them, but given my small sample size, I can’t be sure this is typical or a later addition… Happy to compare notes/photos direct…

And I don’t know the basis of the comment is on the Jack web-site is that these same Jacks were used for D-type and XKSS - any comments on this ???

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The phrase “wishful thinking” seems to spring to mind.
The brand DWS for Donald W Sessions was claimed.
Sessions was an inventor and patented a jack along with Smith’s.
DWS seems to have had some sort of relationship with SS Cars anyway, if perhaps only in an attempt at making a sale of their integrated jacking system.

Fortunately it’s no concern to me.

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And a bit more relevant for your 1938 SS Jaguar, your original equipment jack was branded STEVENSON who was the inventor who held the patents, with the actual Jacks being manufactured by BRITOOL, a trade name for the JENKS Brothers, who also made tools under the JENBRO branding. But this STEVENSON Jack design, was bought out by SJS (SMITHS JACKING SYSTEMS) in 1949, with the Jacks initially thereafter branded SMITHS-STEVENSON, then soon after just SMITHS. Maybe the STEVENSON patents had expired by then.

The C-type Jack is actually branded JACKALL - well actually USE ONLY JACKALL FLUID -
JACKALL branding

but given this is the only branding on these C.6174 C-Type Jacks I simply refer to them as SMITHS Hydraulic/Jackall jack. JACKALL is one of the proprietary names owned/used by Smith’s Jacking Systems Ltd (along with SJS) whose physical address is the Jackall Works, Edgware Road, London N.W.2 , if anyone local cares to tell us what is there now - maybe a hoard of new C.6174 NOS Jacks :grinning: So a bit like the Stevenson/Jenks Brothers/Britool/Jenbro maize…

Not sure exactly what the DWS tie in is, maybe some old 1930s patents re the Hydraulic aspect, but the DWS name/branding seems to have disappeared about the same time as the STEVENSON name/branding - in the very early 1950s… thus no branding on the cast foot of the C.6174 as is apparent on the Jack Web site example…

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No doubt the jacking business was important and competitive in those early motoring days of frequent flat tires.
Here is a jack patent with Donald Wilfred Sessions’ name on it, although not a hydraulic, more akin to our familiar XK screw jacks.
espacenetDocument-60.pdf (104.3 KB)
espacenetDocument-63.pdf (27.1 KB)

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Although not a C-Type, here is a listing article for a D-Type showing tools used with it.

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This all sounds so typically French. “All cars shall have a passenger seat” but no actual requirements that it be functional or usable, so it essentially becomes a tool box at LeMans.

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A search of GB patents with Donald W Sessions and hydraulic revealed that he created quite a number, of which this one from 1936 is the most interesting and relevant to our subject.



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Dick,

The tool roll itself looks like the standard XK 120 version. Difficult to see what exact colour this roll had, but June 1954 would normally point towards the black version with white lining.

Bob K.

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"Typically French": Soyez prudent Messr. Spoelker!!! :rofl:

Bob K.

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Rob,
This is extremely relevant to the SMITHS Jacks as used on 1949 onwards XK120/140 Jacks after SMITHS took over making the SS-Jaguar/Mark IV STEVENSON JACK…
In the 1930s the Britool manufactured Jack STEVENSON JACK was in direct competition to the similar SMITHS Jack, with common aspects apparently not patented, but a number of unique features as detailed in the Patent Documents protected. When SMITHS took over the Britool/STEVENSON Jack in 1949, the resultant Jack now also included a number of SMITHS patented characteristics that were not included in the Mark IV and SS Jaguar Jacks. Accordingly, if you are on top of all this you can reasonably accurately date all the Jacks used in SS Jaguar, Mark IV, Mark V, XK120-140 and early 150, when SMITHS were taken over by another manufactured who made the still similar/but different later XK150 Jacks that concluded this general style of telescopic Jack…
So none of this is of course to the original C-type Jack subject to this string, but maybe of interest enough to be a new subject/string…

As noted, Dicks photo from Skilleter’s Jaguar The Sporting Heritage is of a D-type being scrutineered prior to the June 1954 LeMans race - and yes if you look at the Tool Kit closely, I agree that the Tool Roll is most definately a C.2882 tool roll as also used by both XK120 and indeed C-type, and not yet the superseding Tool Roll C.5578 as introduced in October 1954 for the very first XK140, and ‘presumably’ also used for ‘Production D-types’, albeit I have no hard proof re D-type… So yes, this photo shows what I call the FOURTH Variant C.2882/d (my numbering system, with the variant suffix) where the material used is Black Rexine/lined cream. The C-type tool roll, presumably all made in 1952/3, also had the same C.2882 tool roll, but my research says most probably all the second variant C.2882/b - see attached photo of an original in my collection, noting the original GREEN colour has typically chemically degraded to more a Khaki colour, with the degree of colour degradation variable in any one original tool roll, and from one tool roll to the next…

I am not aware of any Commercial supply of what I consider ACCURATE reproductions of this C.2882/b Tool Roll, with current offerings ranging from VERY GOOD at best, to mostly FAQ - but that may be sufficient for some C-type (and XK120 owners). But a friend of mine in USA, as a hobby, not as a commercial endeavor privately makes at his home extremely accurate REPRODUCTIONS, indeed he has copied the exact pattern for his from my pictured original… (If anyone is genuinely interested, privately message me, and I will give you his contact - its not a commercial effort, so up to him if he will/can supply)