“I’m also lucky to have a really level garage floor.”
Speaking as a rithmetician.... not only must it be level, but it also must be flat.
LLoyd
A step backward, after making a wrong turn, is a step in the right direction.
Kurt Vonnegut
I’m certainly confused by that when it comes to centrelock wheels! What’s the steel thingy between wheel and gauge?
But on a related subject, has anyone come up with cheap turning plates as needed for setting caster and toe–either store-bought or home made?
I think the steel thingy you’re referring to is 1/2 inch (or so) of the hub the knock off goes on as it projects through the wheel.
A racing car mechanic I know uses 1/4 thick steel plates (2 per side) in a sandwich with grease between. I’ve never tried it but it should work.
Based on suggestions by Nick, et al, I used a couple of slick paper magazines. Worked great.
Okay, now that I recall - it was out-of-date Moss catalogs.
Slightly more elegant are a couple of vinyl floor tiles with some grease between them.
Geo’
I do it this way
Well…if the bonnet is off then you can use anything that is straight and long say 10 feet clamped to the rotors. (jack the E up set on jack stands as far from center as possible and remove the tires and wheels) I have used a 10 foot section of 1/2x1/2 square tubing clamped to the face of the rotor with needle nose vice grips and do the same on the other side. You have about 2 feet running aft (back) and 8 feet running forward…do this on both sides parallel to the concrete garage floor…now you can SEE and set the toe (the amount that the rotors are headed in or out in relation to each other) by taking a measuring tape and measuring between the square tubing near the rotors and then 8 feet out…thus you can set toe…really the bonnet does not have to be off to set toe…
Now for camber…because the bonnet comes off you can rotate the rotors with the square tubing straight up to the ceiling (perpendicular to the floor)…now you have a visual of how much each rotor is tilted in or out…make you adjustments…this will set camber…
Have not used to set castor (best to call it thrust angle)…but you can tilt the square tubing to run up into the air parallel to the thrust and adjust the angle for and aft.
The face of the rotor is more true then the rim and tire…
If you are worried about "mid laden weight then put some weight on the motor
I have also gone down to Home Depo and bought aluminium angle…2 sections some 10 feet and clamped them to the rotors
if you can find my site on this forum there are pics
Finally…why is aluminium not spelled as it is on the periodic table??? I took a lot of chemistry…why why??
Mitch Roe 970 779 0456 call if you need more explanation
With the suspension in full droop?
your wire wheels should not wobble, think they need a tune up if they do,
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postage guaranteed.
I was wondering how I was going to do that some day
magazines. or a piece of masonite with glass beads sprinkled underneath. On second thought use talc instead of glass and 12 x 12 linoleum tiles
I used those 1/8” thick vinyl 12”x12” tiles they sell at Loews and Home Depot with a pinch of salt between.
Repost of a repost here:
https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/lets-talk-about-something-else-obscure-shop-made-tools/361148/548
Glossy covers off of magazine are what I use. Just two sheets per side. I wonder if a quick shot of cooking spray between the two sheets might make it even easier?
I put down a magazine & 3 “flimsies” (the clear plastic sheets) with soapy water between the filmsies. It is so slippery that I can push the car side ways with my fingers.
A note here on my above explanation of how I align my cars (I have 38 cars) it works…
Consider this…speaking of the front suspension regardless of the weight placed on either or both tires the tires and rims and rotors must stay true or in line to each other OR the steering would pull when hitting a depression on the road…this is so because when you hit a depression in the road the weight on the suspension changes and the suspension travels up and down…but the goal is to keep the car tracking.
The Jack stands are sitting under the uprights or in olden times the “king pins”…so the upper and lower control arm are “pretty much” where they would be if the car is sitting on its tires…
Speaking of pretty much…the mechanisms (heads) that attached to the rim is accepted as OK even tho the rim could be bent or the attachment points are off (have you ever looked up close)…and a lot of times it is not…Look, I am just tired of having to go to a shop and do the alignment for them…or the machine is out of kilter…(back in the 80’s and 90’s I ran a frame machine)
I am tired of paying for…nothing…
There are good alignment shops with good guys…the last one I know about is Roger in Loveland. CO @ Bear Alignment… his dad Jack circa 1965 to his son to employee Roger…who became owner. First would cost about $400 second Roger might be dead (talking 50 years here) and I am in Phoenix…NO SIR, I will do it myself…my way…you know why…it works
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I would love to do alignments this way (with the wheels off) because it would be so much easier. The reason I have not is, as you say, the situation is only “pretty much” the same as having the tyres on the ground. IMO that’s because you can’t get the springs/torsion bars to assume their normal position without the leverage that results from the tyre being outboard of the upright. On the XJ, for example, a 5/16 inch vertical movement of the tyre causes a 1/8 inch compression of the spring. You can’t duplicate that leverage unless you put the jack stand under a precise location on the spindle–to duplicate the position of the wheel/tyre. That’s too dangerous for me.
So camber wouldn’t be correct if there is any camber gain built into the suspension. Caster probably doesn’t work either, since measuring it depends on camber change as the wheel is steered. Toe might well work, though, provided that there is zero bump steer. IMHO; I hope I’m wrong.
Small correction: in the case of the E Type, where the vertical plane of the inboard A-arm mounts are parallel to the vertical fore-aft centerline plane of the car, caster is only determined by the virtual line between the top ball joint, and the lower ball joint.
(back in the day when nearly all cars had solid front axles, it’s called “king pin inclination.” Still is on almost all larger trucks, buses, and the like.)
Ultimately and irrespective of suspension type, caster is “positive,” if the ball joint axis is tilted backwards, WRT to the vertical centerlind of the wheel, “negative” if that line is tilted towards the front of the car.
Robert,
I do not know for sure…but if the hub assemble (tire,rim,rotor) did not travel in a plane…that is a straight line then every time one tire hit a bump (weight change)it would push one way or the other and thereby shift the front of the car…
Don’t the hubs lean when turning???
In any case…it works…for toe plane and simple…it works for camber maybe just because it is not necessary to be precise…the machines are not precise…
Again it works… I can see the jack stand impeading free movement…
Have to say this…I hate Webster…to lock us into one way of spelling…
A heavy duty trash bag, folded in half a couple of times also works very well.
No grease, cooking oil, sand, or anything else required.
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Regarding wheel ‘run-out’ - In the old days a “Bear” system had you rotate the front (or rear on Corvettes) while a spot was projected on a grid. The spot would move if the wheel had run out - which they all did, and you’d average out the error.
The pics are how I do mine, as all our cars have IRS, so you’ve got to check all sorts of crap.
Your diagram shows why I always did alignments off the centerline of the car.
Nice set up.
I agree with both statements. Which is why I believe the IRS mounts have shims , they are meant to align the IRS square to the centerline of the car.
Not an expert but if the IRS wheels are parallel and the IRS is square to the car’s centerline the car should not “dog track”.
Marco