Can anyone recognize this Mark IV saloon? Pending police fraud case

(Gary Seraphinoff) #1

Hello Forum readers, Last November 8, 2018 I “bought” this Mark IV shown below from a person that I had met the month before. I had bought some Jaguar items from him the month prior, the two sales went well and after showing me that he could be trusted, I paid for this vehicle in advance of me actually seeing it. These are the two images the seller provided and the

young man said it was coming from Georgia. It never came and the case is being decided now in my local police department. If ANYONE recognizes this vehicle and it’s shown to not ever to have been owned by the “seller” I bought it from, please let me know ASAP. Hopefully it will decide if this person get a warrant for his arrest for fraud charges or merely a day in small claims court. Its a small world concerning our early Jaguars and I hope a reader here can give me some help. Thanks, Gary Seraphinoff (248) 594-5906

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(Rob Reilly) #2

Did he give you a chassis number?

(phillip keeter) #3

Can you do anything with the license plate number? Texas?

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(Gary Seraphinoff) #4

No, I never got one from the guy. I am guessing because he never had the car. Its a shame because I was really interested in finally getting a Mark IV. Instant love the first time I sat in one at age of 17. I still am happy to scan that 1938 owners manual for you. Perhaps my emails went to your spam folder but if interested let me know. Thanks, Gary

(Gary Seraphinoff) #5

The detective ran a search on the 1998 Texas plate but the owner is deceased.

(Rob Reilly) #6

Can the detective get the chassis number from the Texas registration?
It will be a six digit number beginning with 51xxxx or 61xxxx.
Or it may be registered by the engine number which began with the letter L or M or P or S followed by up to 4 numerals.

(Gary Seraphinoff) #7

Thats an excellent idea. I will contact the detective this morning about the registration number and also look over the images on Saloon Data as suggested by Mike Balch. Many Thanks, Gary

(Ian) #8

To me it look’s like the pictures where taken in England , both cars are right hand drive , and the jag registration plate is British , under the USA one !

(Robin O'Connor) #9

Not a UK registration sticker on the screen?

(Ian) #10

True , we had round tax discs , don’t know what that is ! 57db6e243529879d7b4da7e1880ba43128f69f5f_2_1035x684%5B1%5D

(Raccoonman) #11

That’s an annual safety inspection sticker. Possibly Texas, not all states require them. It does give a little more proof that the car is stateside. I hope you get this sorted to your satisfaction!

(Gary Seraphinoff) #12

Thanks to all for the ideas on finding the true owner of this vehicle. Per the suggestion of Rob Reilly, I contacted the detective on the case and he forwarded me the information he had on the last known registration. The last known registration does match the front 1998 Texas license plate that expired (see below) in 2003. Please see the screenshot from the police that gives a lot of information that may be helpful. Thank You, Gary

(Rob Reilly) #13

To help narrow your search, the narrow chrome at the lower end of the radiator grille sitting on the front fenders indicates that it is a post-war and not pre-war car so built in 1945-48, although not likely to have been registered as a '45. The length of the bonnet indicates that it is a six cylinder and not a four cylinder model, so look in the 2.5 and 3.5 Liter Mark IV records on saloondata. Be sure to look at the “before” pictures of restored cars, and auction records of cars that have crossed the block. Some dealers retain pictures of cars that have passed through their hands.

Many early cars that come to the US, including my own '38 which has been in the US since 1977, still carry old UK registration plates. It is unfortunate that the Texas plate blocks this one, which would have been a great help, but my guess is that the first 3 letters are PWB.

(Rob Reilly) #14

Great, the chassis number is 511612 which is a 2-1/2 Liter, but unfortunately not on saloondata.

(Gary Seraphinoff) #15

Using that chassis number, I entered the information on this morning. It’s not appearing as yet but I think maybe it needs reviewing first. Thanks, Gary

(Simon Roope) #16


I see online the property Robert Gunter lived in 2003 is currently for sale (7909 Stanford Ave, Dallas Tx). You could contact the real estate agents and find the name of the executor dealing with the deceased’s estate. If the MK IV and the other car in the photo (Triumph Mayflower?) were still owned by Robert Gunter at the time of his death last year the executor will surely be able to help.

Good luck

(Gary Seraphinoff) #17

Thanks for your valued input. Especially about the name of the executer of the prior owner’s estate. Regards, Gary

(phillip keeter) #18

My hunch is that all this scam scum has ever owned are the photos of the car, not the car.
Sorry for your loss.

(Rob Reilly) #19

Yes, saloondata takes a couple of days for review, which is probably a good thing, although it doesn’t catch every mistake; there is a Mark VIII listed in the Mark IV section.
Unlike wikipedia which allows anybody to delete anybody else’s hard work.
The other car in the photo is a Triumph 1800 or 2000 roadster from 1946-49, the last production car with a rumble seat (4501 built). The 1800 used the same 1776cc engine used by Lyons in the 1-1/2 Litre Mark IV (tenuous pre-xk connection).

(Ed Nantes) #20

Googling the Amhurst Ave address, It seems the pic of the car wasn’t taken there.