Yes, I got sidetracked on other things in life and forgot about the owners manual, but a pdf scan of a few pages would be most welcome.
I am missing whatever is before page 4 Memos and License Data, and whatever is after page 51 Coachwork with a picture of the spare wheel housing.
I could also really use a high resolution scan of that picture of the spare wheel, because mine still is not right, the tire is preventing the door from closing. robreilly120@comcast.net
Thanks mucho!
FWIW JDHT says 511612 was made at the tail end of 1948.
I think the answer is that the Enthusiast in us wants to know the chassis number “just because” and the Detective in us wants to know it so the actual owner can hopefully be traced. The primary reason is that if my police department can prove that the car pictured and sold to me was never owned by the seller but by someone else, then the prosecutor is going to charge him with fraud, a criminal offense. If no one comes forward as the actual owner, as crazy as the law seems to me, the prosecutor will merely say that he “broke a written contract”. That will allow him to to not be charged as a criminal. This theft will be then downgraded as only a broken contract that falls in the category of a Civil Case. That means a trip to the sometimes non-productive Small Claims Court where he will get a judgement against him for the money but no criminal record and certainly no jail time. As for me, the money will probably then never be recoverable. Your comment on reverse tracking the ISP address could have worked under some circumstances. In this case, I had made transactions with him prior to this one, gained his trust and the two images of the Mark IV were shown to me directly from his cell phone. Sad to say, by then we had a working business relationship of sorts and I purchased the car based on heresay and the two cell phone images. They were forwarded to me via email from his phone at a later date. I will ask the detective if the ISP address is still available with the two images I had forwarded to my email. Thanks to all for your efforts and hopefully this fellow can be caught.
I have an update about this 3-1/2 Litre saloon. The previous owner of this car, Robert L. Gunter, according to his obituary from the Montgomery, Alabama funeral home, moved back to Montgomery after having spent a large portion of his business career in Texas. In the obituary last year it mentioned that he was an avid British car enthusiast and his car club was mentioned. I contacted the secretary of the club and he said that, in addition to being a personal friend, the gentleman was, as noted, a highly esteemed member of the club. The secretary said that the saloon was not sold until after his passing this past year and if I can somehow connect with his nephew who sold his cars I can perhaps trace the actual owner. If so, then the criminal who bamboozled me can prepare for a jail term.
Gary,
The prosecutor working your case is most likely a very busy man and could probably use your assistance in this investigation and subsequent prosecution. In reading the statutes regarding the definition, of fraud it appears that your boy perpetrated an aggressive, fraudulent scheme against you by the use of telephone images of the product he claimed to be selling and making false testimony as to it’s ownership and availability. This, does meet the basic requirements for a criminal case of fraud. Though not technically mail fraud, as it was not carried out through a national mail carrier, you should be successful in getting justice and sending this guy to jail for a time. It would send a chilling message out to others who may think this type of activity will go unpunished and, as such, well worth the risk.
Good luck, We all like a mystery solved and a happy ending.
Phillip
Gary; if you go the civil route, it will cost you money and time and, in the end, you may find the guy is suite proof (ie. he doesn’t have any money or assets).
I would highly recommend that you keep the pessure on the police to go the criminal route. That way, instead of you doing the heavy lifting, the police and Crown (ADA in the rebel colonies) do all the work and can use powers that mere civilians don’t have. As a plus, the judge may, as part of the sentence, order restitution. Not making restitution may affect his parole; thus, a big hammer in your hand.
Going the criminal route may get your money back: Going the civil route, costs you money and he may get to keep the money.
It would be a good thing for the Jaguar community if the OP can assist in preventing this fraud being perpetrated again against some unsuspecting enthusiast!
All measures should be taken to hunt down such vermin
The nephew sounds like he holds the key, shouldnt be hard to track him down
Just bear in mind he may know more than he wants to let on
Soon I will try and contact the nephew that sold the saloon. Makes me wonder if the crook saw the cars for sale after the nephew listed them. Maybe that’s where he got his photos. When and if it gets solved I will indeed shout the news from the rooftop.
I respectfully disagree, the cops wont tell you much, even if they do anything
On the other hand, some polite phone calls, with well thought out questions…if I was a genuine nephew, I would be appalled at the situation, and assist to the utmost of my ability, maybe having vital info (which can be relayed to the police)… if he is shifty, unhelpful, or disrespectful…that will be a pretty good pointer too
I was an investigator for some years, and its interesting what simple direct questions reveal,
doubt a phone call can be harmful
Dear readers, JUSTICE IS SERVED! I have diligently been using the internet to track down the true owner of the Mark IV that was “sold” to me by the miscreant that scammed me. Today I presented my month long findings to the detective that had been handling my case. An hour later he called to tell me that he had found the car and its present owner. The owner is sending an affidavit saying that he is the present owner and holds the title for the car. NOW the case has been escalated from a slap on the hand civil case to a criminal case. After the detective called and said he felt like deputizing me for my research, he said that he was writing a warrant for his arrest. I will probably never see any money returned to me but the thought of him convicted of fraud and a jail sentence is satisfying enough for me. The highly interesting attached link shows the Mark IV among many other treasures that the dealer (legally) bought: https://www.jpfrazier.com/blog/guntercollection The chances are great that I will never see the return of my money but it will be highly satisfying to see him get convicted of fraud and an eminent visit to the Big House. Thanks for all of your suggestions some of which I have actually employed in finding the actual owner of the Mark IV.
The present (legal) owner is Frazier Motorcar Company, a long established and reputable dealer that purchased a portion of the collection of a deceased individual. The man that defrauded me also saw the cars for sale that the dealer did. The man that “sold” me the Mark IV under false pretenses never owned the car. The link about the Bobby Gunter Collection is a blogpost from Mr. Frazier’s website demonstrating how he acquired a potion of the collection. Regrettably, the scammer also saw the cars on offer and pretended they were his own to sell. I purchased it sight unseen based on trust engendered from previous buys from him that went without a hitch. Kinda’ like the old movie “The Sting” except in this version I played Doyle Lonnegan and I got set up and subsequently stung.
Well done Gary, hopefully you will see some funds returned to you, but as you say probably not. Perhaps take comfort in knowing that you have possibly saved other people from being scammed.
In Australia, sometimes it is neccessary to take “Civil” action, which is how you try and get your money back if someone commits a fraud.
The court orders them to pay, and this can lead to years of harrassment by Sheriffs, banks etc
It doesnt cost a lot, but time
Unfortunately, (unless they are already caught) some sort of legal action would probably be needed to uncover the persons internet address…unless they took precautions to hide that with proxy servers etc
Citizen Justice!..ripping off a fellow in an Auto deal, 1st offence; punishment = crucifiction
recently had to threaten this upon a person who was trying to fob me off after wrecking my car.
pay up or I will drag you through the courts for years…he settled
Good advice. You may want to look at taking this guy to small claims (justice) court. There are limits ($5,000?) but with a judgement in your favor, you would be able to have a service raid his bank accounts and also slap a lien on any property he owns, including autos, and eventually force a sheriff’s sale. You may get satisfaction with this approach. Good luck.
Phillip