Centrallock problems

Hi, I have a problem with the central lock on the bead ;-), it has “temporarily stopped working”. It has worked before but now dead, I have removed the door sides and lubricated the locking mechanism and also the “arm” for the relay / solenoid. Have checked the fuses and it should apparently be one of the glass fuses? which sits on the pass.side of the left knee … behind the cover side. When I sit in the car and lock, I can hear 2-3 ticking lights very quietly but you do not always hear it. Someone who has an idea, can live with, almost, but is annoying nonetheless.
My Car XJ6 -86 4,2 L

Ronny,

which functions exactly are unavailable? - The later S III configuration triggered all motorized locks from the driver’s door, but not from the co-pilot’s door lock, IIRC. Then there is a central locking switch located on the center console (at least on SII cars, did S III keep that switch?). Finally, operating the lock paddle at the driver’s door should operate all of the locks. - Maybe others chime in to confirm operation as engineered.

If any one of these functions are unavailable, but others are, the prime suspect is the respective switch. If only some doors don’t open or close under specific conditions it is most likely contacts inside the doors or door card padding obstructing movement of the lock paddles. If nothing ever works, you have a fundamental problem in the “triggering” circuit. Unless you have done so, get yourself the correct wiring schematics and the S57 writeup.

There should be a 15A fuse at #17 of the fuse panel. from VIN 470740 on, and as an inline fuse up to this VIN (located behind the fuse panel, I guess). The central lock switch is located in the driver’s door and might be dead. Unless it is fried, it might just be a ground issue.

Good luck

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

1 Like

Adding to Jochen’s inputs, Ronny…

In the driver’s door is a control module, operated by rods from the door lock and by the ‘flap’ on the driver’s door. When key is turned or the flap moved, the control module sends a brief current pulse to all other doors and the boot locks. Polarity is reversed by the control module for locking and unlocking. The driver’s door locking is mechanically operated by the door key and/or the flap.

Other doors has the inside flap, locking/unlocking each door mechanically, independent of the central locking system. The position of all flaps are ‘tell-tail’; indicating whether respective doors are locked or unlocked - and all flaps should be in the same position if the system operates as it should (lock motors may fail independently. The boot is locked by the central locking, but can only be opened by the ‘owner’s’ door key…

Three ‘usual’ faults; the fuse is blown, the controller has failed or it is maladjusted…

  • The fuse is either #17 on the glove compartment fuse box (LHD) as Jochen says, or it may be an inline
    fuse seen/dug out when the fuse box cover is removed. (Don’t implicitly trust the manuals)
    If the fuse is blown; replace it and verify that all(!) the flaps moves to the same positions when locking
    and unlocking. If one or more flaps differ; or the unlocked boot does not lock, do NOT use the central
    locking system and remove the fuse, pending further checks

  • To check controller; remove driver side A-pillar cover and look for a connector with one orange/red
    and one orange/green wire from the door. Disconnect the connector and place a test lamp over the
    two wires - operate the door key (or flap) to lock or unlock. Each time the test lamp should flash on for
    about 2 seconds - confirming the controller is working correctly. If the lamp does not light, lights feebly
    or stays lit for a longer time; the controller is defective. Lit for a longer time; remove fuse and do NOT
    use the central locking system until the controller is replaced and verified…

If the controller keeps power on the motors for a ‘long’ time, the fuse will blow, and/or motors may burn out in turn. If a motor burns out; the current drawn may not be high enough to blow the fuse - and the rest of the motors will burn out if the system is used. The only protection of the motors is that power is only applied briefly…

  • A maladjusted controller will show up as doors will ‘lock’ but not ‘unlock’ or the other way around. To
    check; place all flaps in one position, then operate key - then repeat with the flaps in the other position.

A blown fuse is a danger signal - just replacing the fuse without further checks is not recommended…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

3 Likes

Hi and thanks for the tip. Nothing works as it is now, only the driver’s door locks.
Is it the placement that is meant by # 17? in the fuse box itself?
As Frank writes, the control unit is located in the driver’s door on the SIII. Also unsure what is meant by “…the S57 writeup”?
A wiring diagram I guess. An inline fuse is outside the fuse box, one of the glass fuses?
Sincerely
Ronny

Hello and thank you very much for the tips.
I’ll see if I can find the wires you mention to test with a lamp.
There seems to be something alive because I can hear 2-3 silent clicks when I lock or unlock but not every time.
When it stopped working I heard a clearer clicking sound and I want to remember I found a broken fuse, it was a while ago now, and I’m afraid I’ve, as you mention, burned the motor on the main unit.
The fuse on # 17, does it have no name?

Sincerely
Ronny

Check if the drivers actuator gets power (12v) and has good ground.
If it does my bet is that the actuator itself is the problem, it’s the brain of the system.
You can check if the other actuators work by giving power and ground to the two orange cables, check the wiring diagram and you will understand what I am referring to…

Thanks for the tip, do you mean by drivers actuator ie the relay / solenoid?
I am Swedish so not always easy with expressions in English :slight_smile:

Greetings
Ronny

I got a little thoughtful, to access the controller (solenoid?) And thus the contact with the wires do I need to remove a black disc? where the window lift seems to be mounted and what happens if I remove them, does the spring for the window lift go away or what? :wink:

Ronny,

don’t worry about your English - many listers don’t speak English as their mother tongue either … and from time to time there are posts, even from native speakers, hard to understand not only for non-native speakers;-)

The S57 is a Jaguar source. It seems it was a kind of easy-to-apply break down of all electric sub-systems of SIII XJ sedans (and XJS coupés) helping out car mechanics who may have found the full wiring diagram too difficult to understand (it may be a co-incidence, but it seems that during the 80s when car electrics became a lot more sophisticated than until the late 1970s other car makers shifted from wiring patterns (with all electric elements on one page) to electric flow diagrams (+ on top of the page and - at the bottom and depicting each circuit next each other). The S57 is widely spread among our SIII community and the original wiring pattern should be part of the SIII Repair Operation Manual. The Repair Operation Manual (ROM) together with the original Parts Catalogue will get you a great deal further in understanding your car. While the explosion drawings of the Parts Catalogue are readily available at https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/older-vehicle-information (scroll down to XJ6 SER 3 TO AUG 1985 or XJ6 SER 3 AUG 1985 ONWARDS). The ROM will typically be sold on ebay either as hardcopy or CD-ROM.

Only since you’re talking about solenoids: I fairly sure that the central locking system shifted from solenoids to motors before your car left the assembly lines. The “controller” is just a switch. Its signals activate - depending on year - either solenoids or motors.

If you have no function of the power locking at all chances are the culprit is the central switch. Like Aristides wrote, still there is a good chance that only power or ground have a contact problem. Frank’s description is plain gorgeous and should be moved to the FAQ - just follow his advice.

The fuse is - again depending on the age of your car: please check you VIN - either # 17 in the fuse box, or, as Frank wrote, an inline fuse (these are the fuses that are held within a circuit, about like this one:
grafik
You’d have to try to dig it out behind the fuse box panel.

Don’t be afraid, there is no central motor you have burnt - there are four motors. Still, if there is excessive resistance - either electric resistance in the circuit or mechanical resistance causing the motors to draw excessive current, the fuse will blow and is supposed to. Try another fuse, but if it blows again there is a fault that needs to be rectified first.

Good luck

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

**
Jaguar changed from solenoid operated central locking to motors, Kiekert, mid eighties, Ronny. possibly after 83, but that is not gospel. Jaguar introduced changes as new parts were delivered and/or when they ran out the old parts. The Kiekert were probably destined for the xj40, which was delayed a bit - so at least late 85 xj/6/12 would have Kiekert…

The mountings and car wiring are identical for solenoids and Kiekert, but the solenoids use relays while the Kiekert use polarity reversal. The controller and motors are externally identical and are mounted on brackets in the doors - difficult to see and access, but there is no need to touch or move other items in the doors. You fight your way under the plastic splash shield and look for a black square oblong with wires (the motors have only two) - and a rod connected to the door lock mechanism. The units are screwed on to a separate bracket, which are then bolted to a door bracket (adjustable back and forth) with two 10 mm bolts.

However, there is at this stage, no need to access the controller/motors - function tests can be done using the connector at the A-pillar as described. Which will clarify whether the controller works as it should - and if not; the motors can be tested by applying power, with appropriate polarity, to the connector’s ‘out’ wires - not to the wires going into the driver’s door controller. This will verify, by the door flap positions and boot locking, whether all motors work as they should. Depending on results you can then take the appropriate actions…

Power to the controller is deliver by a brown/blue wire, also accessible in the A-pillar. You can check for power by disconnecting the connector, and if there is no power; again check the fuse - #17 in the auxiliary fuse box should be numbered.

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

What a fantastic description of possible errors and actions :), great. many thanks.
I found the fuse, among other things through this link, Jaguar XJ6 SIII, and the fuse is complete.
To access the wires I need to loosen the black board where parts of the window lift seem to sit, I think anyway, and do I dare to loosen the side? ;-), so it does not fall out the spring or anything else to the window lift. I may completely misunderstand, very possible :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the tips etc., fantastic.
I will test with a test lamp but not easy to access the cables, very cramped to access.
I found the fuse through this link:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/sk_electrical.htm
and it’s ok.
Can you try connecting 12 v + and - directly to the motor?

Ok 12 v + and ground
Thanks

Do not really understand, “…plastic splash shield …” which is it, I have removed the door sides to access lubrication and there I can see a black plastic? Disc where are parts of the window lift but I guess you do not mean it. or do you mean where the cable harnesses go between the door and the body, it is in a “rubber tube” or where the handle itself is located? In a black plastic part, there are 2 rods plus one for the locking flap itself.

The splash shield is simply a thin sheet of plastic taped to top of the door metal inside the door cover - and tucked inside the door at the bottom. It’s purpose is to divert water from the windows to the doors’ bottom drain holes to prevent wetting the ‘cardboard’ door covers - which will otherwise warp and rot. Originally clear plastic, but a PO may have replaced it black bin liner material - or just removed it for better access.

Finding the control/motors is just a matter of careful looking - they’re don’t instantly seen, being black, and needs some body contortion.

You have removed the A-pillar panel in the driver’s footwell? It’s absolutely essential for checking controller function - and removing the passenger side A-pillar panel will give access to corresponding connectors for further motor testing. There is, at this stage, no need to go inside the doors for testing - that’s to be done for detail checking/changing of individual motors.

The motors lock and unlock by reversing polarity. Ie, you apply +12V to orange/green and -12V (or ground) to orange/red for the motors to turn one way - and reverse polarity to make the motors turn the other way. The wires/connectors at each motor all have the same colors - and is tested the same way, if deemed necessary. But basically; the door flaps are mechanically linked to each motor/locking mechanism to externally show their status while testing…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

Hi and thanks for more information but I do not really understand what part you mean by A-pill panel in the driver’s footwell ?, I try to attach a picture on the cover side down at the driver’s left foot if it is the one you mean?
I have removed the door side on all doors and I see the black engines, on the driver’s door and the passenger door they are more difficult to access so I hope there is nothing wrong with them ;-),
I have managed to get the plug in the door to the engine, there are 4 pins where 2 are the ones you mention, ie, orange / green and orange / red. I had guessed that orange / red was + :-). The other 2 wires may go to the lamp at the door edge or have to do with the window lift but I will try to connect
power to these pins that you tip about so see if anything happens.
Thanks again
You have a -85 XJ 6 Soverign that I understand. It’s probably a little more equipped than mine.
Do you live in the Netherlands?
Greetings
Roony
Ronny

Ronny,

your pic shows exactly what Frank was talking about by “A-pillar panel in the driver’s footwell”. A “pillar” in car jargon means one of the typically three vertical lines of power absorption in a car providing stability for the passenger cabin box, one in front of the front door, usually referred to as “A pillar”, the second one rising behind the front door, usually referred to as the “B pillar”, and the third one rising behind the last side window, i.e. behind the rear door in a four-door sedan, referred to as the “C pillar”.

As the A pillar rises from the sill through the lower windscreen corner up to the trailing edge of the ceiling there are at least two liners: one lower one in the footwell (you posted the pic) and one upper one (between the windscreen and the front door edge).

Remove this plastic part and you’re under way!

Good luck

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

**
On LHD it is indeed the panel to the left of the driver’s foot, Ronny - it reveals all the connections mentioned…

The ‘engine’ in the driver’s door is the ‘controller’ - there is no motor in that door, only the controller. The orange/green and range/red are the ‘power out’, from(!) the controller to the door and boot motors - they change polarity for ‘lock’ and ‘unlock’. The two other wires are (supposedly) brown/blue (power ‘in’ to the controller from fuse #17) - and black (controller ground). While you can test the controller in situ with a test lamp over the ‘out’ wires, access is, as you say, difficult - and access is easier behind the A-pillar panel. Ie, wires at the controller has nothing to do with anything else - do not(!) test the way you propose.

Again; power is delivered to the controller, which when activated by the door key or flap, sends a brief power pulse, with proper polarity, to the door and boot motors. The flaps on the other doors only locks and unlocks the respective doors mechanically - they do not activate the central locking system, but shows whether the door is locked or unlocked…

Since you have the rear door panels off; you can of course use the test lamp over the wires at those motors - if you find that easier. With a functioning controller; you will ‘see’ the power pulse on the motor connector - the test lamp is indifferent to current polarity. you can also check if the respective motors works by a brief(!) +/- 12V connection to the motor wires - reversing polarity for ‘lock’/‘unlock’.

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

Ok thanks, I never heard “…pillar” before :slight_smile: but now i know

Thanks again

Well I’m lazy and didn’t read the entire thread, and as usual with my I’m late in the game trying to play catch up.
S-57 wiring diagram. What is it?
It’s essentially the wiring diagram for most of the Series III’s and the XJ-S. Very handy. PM (personal message) me and I will get you a copy of the wiring diagram if you don’t already have one.

I had the same issue with my Series III, and the S57 write up was invaluable. I resolved this issue, by starting at source of the problem. popped all the door panels off, checked the locking solenoids with a 12V 8 amp hour battery I liberated from a clients’ computer UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply). These are very handy to have kicking around and much lighter and smaller than a car battery; can be recharged like a car battery using an automotive charger (set on the lowest setting). Works great for testing 12V low amperage electrics. Starting a car? not really an option. Anyway.

Connected the solenoid to the battery and it checked out with a click, then reversing the poles and another click. Then checked whether or not there was power to the solenoid with a lighted tester. yes. long story short, which is unusual for me, the issue was to ensure the mechanical mechanism doing the locking and unlocking wasn’t binding. for me it was a matter of adjusting the rods and making sure any contact & pivot points were sufficiently lubricated and moved freely.

Here’s the thing. even though, this isn’t a “scheduled” maintenance item, it’s something to consider if you’re XJ spends any time in the weather. Mine is a daily driver. Since I’ve acquired the car, this is something that I find my self doing about every 5 years or so.

Sincerely,
Mark