[concours] Correct Clamps (was) More Coupe Questions

Stephen Gibson wrote:

The vast majority of clamps used were of the ‘Jubilee’ worm drive type
with flat bladed screwdriver adjustment. There were fuel type flat plate
clamps > >with a screw and nut fixing. There was the odd crimp type clip
fitted.

Clamps are always an issue with the concours set. I first thought that any
“cut” style clamp (that is, you can see the hose through the slots cut into
the band) was inauthentic on any Jag. My ser II XJ12 seems to have some cut
clamps on the airco hoses that look to be original. The Jubilee clamps are
available and (if you’re a judge, don’t read this) I’ve installed some on my
ser III. They are made of heavier stainless steel and have grooves cut into
them for the worm drive to engage but I thought they were only authentic to
the earlier cars like the XK two seaters and the early Mark saloons and
perhaps Etypes. I’ve never seen an original Jubilee on any XJ saloon or XJS.
The crimp type clamps seem to be used almost exclusively on emission and
intake plumbing. The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons are
Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new replacements.
Does anyone have any more info on these?
John Testrake
St. Louis, USA

In a message dated 2/26/02 9:13:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Jtestrake@aol.com writes:

<< The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons are
Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new
replacements.
Does anyone have any more info on these?
John Testrake
St. Louis, USA >>

John they are available from “Worth” every size you need for your car.

Bob…

Note that there is now an originality Forum on http://www.jcna.com
where you can ask questions like this.

Daniel Thompson-----Original Message-----
From: Jtestrake@aol.com [mailto:Jtestrake@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:33 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Cc: concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [concours] Correct Clamps (was) More Coupe Questions

Stephen Gibson wrote:

The vast majority of clamps used were of the ‘Jubilee’ worm drive type
with flat bladed screwdriver adjustment. There were fuel type flat plate

clamps > >with a screw and nut fixing. There was the odd crimp type clip

fitted.

Clamps are always an issue with the concours set. I first thought that any
“cut” style clamp (that is, you can see the hose through the slots cut into
the band) was inauthentic on any Jag. My ser II XJ12 seems to have some
cut
clamps on the airco hoses that look to be original. The Jubilee clamps are
available and (if you’re a judge, don’t read this) I’ve installed some on my

ser III. They are made of heavier stainless steel and have grooves cut into

them for the worm drive to engage but I thought they were only authentic to
the earlier cars like the XK two seaters and the early Mark saloons and
perhaps Etypes. I’ve never seen an original Jubilee on any XJ saloon or
XJS.
The crimp type clamps seem to be used almost exclusively on emission and
intake plumbing. The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons
are
Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new
replacements.
Does anyone have any more info on these?
John Testrake
St. Louis, USA

Stephen,
Take a look at an unrestored XJS. You will find as many as 4 different types of
hose clamps on it, including perferated.
Steve Kennedy

Denver, CO

Jtestrake@aol.com wrote:> > Stephen Gibson wrote:

The vast majority of clamps used were of the ‘Jubilee’ worm drive type
with flat bladed screwdriver adjustment. There were fuel type flat plate
clamps > >with a screw and nut fixing. There was the odd crimp type clip
fitted.

Clamps are always an issue with the concours set. I first thought that any
“cut” style clamp (that is, you can see the hose through the slots cut into
the band) was inauthentic on any Jag. My ser II XJ12 seems to have some cut
clamps on the airco hoses that look to be original. The Jubilee clamps are
available and (if you’re a judge, don’t read this) I’ve installed some on my
ser III. They are made of heavier stainless steel and have grooves cut into
them for the worm drive to engage but I thought they were only authentic to
the earlier cars like the XK two seaters and the early Mark saloons and
perhaps Etypes. I’ve never seen an original Jubilee on any XJ saloon or XJS.
The crimp type clamps seem to be used almost exclusively on emission and
intake plumbing. The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons are
Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new replacements.
Does anyone have any more info on these?
John Testrake
St. Louis, USA

2/26/02

Hi Stephen Gibson, John Testrake & all – Stephen & John, my original late
'59 Mark IX (RHETT, 792817 BW) was built in Coventry on 12/15/59, and
despatched on 12/28/59, with Cheney clips (hose clamps) in various sizes.
These read: “Double Grip, CHENEY, No. (0 or 2A depending on size), World
Patents, Made in England” – they’re EXACTLY as described below by John,
with grooves cut into them for the worm drive, and NO holes for the worm
drive.

Although RHETT is now in his 41st year, the Cheney clamps fit and hold
perfectly – at the beginning of the concours season, I simply strip them
off, clean them thoroughly with a wire brush, and re-install. Just one
more reason RHETT won 1st Place North America for 1997 in the JCNA’s
then-new Class 18, Preservation, eh!

Finding good Cheney clips is difficult (no longer made), but there may
still be some of these out there. I hope this helps – Larry Martz*****

Stephen Gibson wrote:

The vast majority of clamps used were of the ‘Jubilee’ worm drive type
with flat bladed screwdriver adjustment. There were fuel type flat plate
clamps > >with a screw and nut fixing. There was the odd crimp type clip
fitted.

Clamps are always an issue with the concours set. I first thought that any
“cut” style clamp (that is, you can see the hose through the slots cut into
the band) was inauthentic on any Jag. My ser II XJ12 seems to have some cut
clamps on the airco hoses that look to be original. The Jubilee clamps are
available and (if you’re a judge, don’t read this) I’ve installed some on my
ser III. They are made of heavier stainless steel and have grooves cut into
them for the worm drive to engage but I thought they were only authentic to
the earlier cars like the XK two seaters and the early Mark saloons and
perhaps Etypes. I’ve never seen an original Jubilee on any XJ saloon or XJS.
The crimp type clamps seem to be used almost exclusively on emission and
intake plumbing. The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons are
Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new replacements.
Does anyone have any more info on these?
John Testrake
St. Louis, USA

THANK YOU! All this about “Worth” or “Wurth” or whatever was starting to
give me a headache. Jaguar definitely used “cut” clamps on both XJ6 and
XJ12 cars in some specific locations. So far, every original XJ6C I’ve seen
has five “cut” clamps and one crimped one on the smog pump hose. The
crimped one is adjacent to the pump in every case. Also, cut clamps were
often used BY Jaguar on the hoses that were installed AFTER the engine was
installed. Not in every car, but in most. That’s also true on the XJ12.
Clamps installed on the stuff put on the engine before installation are
uncut. Jaguar switched styles sometime between my S2 and most of the S3
cars and went to a better quality clamp.

If you don’t believe it, take a look in ORIGINAL JAGUAR XJ where the very
last XJ6, retained by JDHT, clearly shows cut clamps in areas where the
clamps were installed after the engine was installed. Other cars in the
book have them as well, but that one’s got the best pedigree.

The story from Jaguar isn’t the WHOLE story. I have no idea why Jaguar
elected to use a different clamp stle for “hookup” clamps compared to
“engine build” clamps, but they did.
-Steve A.
'67 E Type Coupe
'76 XJ6C
'91 XJ40

John Testrake wrote:>Clamps are always an issue with the concours set. I first thought that any

“cut” style clamp (that is, you can see the hose through the slots cut into
the band) was inauthentic on any Jag. My ser II XJ12 seems to have some cut
clamps on the airco hoses that look to be original.

Hi Larry,

To add to your thread, there is a decent source for Cheney clamps at a place
called East Coast Jaguar in Wilmington, Del (just off I95) 302-475-7200.
The owner, John, has a wide variety of original Jaguar parts through many
years of a hobby-turned-business love of jags. He has boxes of freshly
replated clamps as well as originals. He is quite knowledgable and is
honest and stands behind his parts and service. No affiliation, just a
satisfied customer. By the way, the question begs to be asked, what
happened to your car since 1997? How did it do in 1998, 1999, 2000, and
2001? :)-----Original Message-----
From: jagmkix@cwo.com [mailto:jagmkix@cwo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:50 PM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org; concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [concours] Correct Clamps (was) More Coupe Questions

2/26/02

Hi Stephen Gibson, John Testrake & all – Stephen & John, my original late
'59 Mark IX (RHETT, 792817 BW) was built in Coventry on 12/15/59, and
despatched on 12/28/59, with Cheney clips (hose clamps) in various sizes.
These read: “Double Grip, CHENEY, No. (0 or 2A depending on size), World
Patents, Made in England” – they’re EXACTLY as described below by John,
with grooves cut into them for the worm drive, and NO holes for the worm
drive.

Although RHETT is now in his 41st year, the Cheney clamps fit and hold
perfectly – at the beginning of the concours season, I simply strip them
off, clean them thoroughly with a wire brush, and re-install. Just one
more reason RHETT won 1st Place North America for 1997 in the JCNA’s
then-new Class 18, Preservation, eh!

Finding good Cheney clips is difficult (no longer made), but there may
still be some of these out there. I hope this helps – Larry Martz


Stephen Gibson wrote:

The vast majority of clamps used were of the ‘Jubilee’ worm drive type
with flat bladed screwdriver adjustment. There were fuel type flat plate
clamps > >with a screw and nut fixing. There was the odd crimp type clip
fitted.

Clamps are always an issue with the concours set. I first thought that any
“cut” style clamp (that is, you can see the hose through the slots cut into
the band) was inauthentic on any Jag. My ser II XJ12 seems to have some
cut
clamps on the airco hoses that look to be original. The Jubilee clamps are
available and (if you’re a judge, don’t read this) I’ve installed some on my
ser III. They are made of heavier stainless steel and have grooves cut into
them for the worm drive to engage but I thought they were only authentic to
the earlier cars like the XK two seaters and the early Mark saloons and
perhaps Etypes. I’ve never seen an original Jubilee on any XJ saloon or
XJS.
The crimp type clamps seem to be used almost exclusively on emission and
intake plumbing. The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons
are
Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new
replacements.
Does anyone have any more info on these?
John Testrake
St. Louis, USA

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Bob and John: I thought that these were Jubilee clamps. I have never heard
of “norma” clamps; is this the kind that has the metal cut out (that is
“missing”) as opposed to simply punched through, leaving a sort of serrated
finish? On the V12 engines, at least, there seems to have been a mixture of
these clamps used from the factory. (I went through this last year with
regard to a concours deduction)
Gregory----- Original Message -----
From: Peddlarbob@aol.com
To: concours@jag-lovers.org; xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:44 AM
Subject: [xj] Re: [concours] Correct Clamps (was) More Coupe Questions

: In a message dated 2/26/02 9:13:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
: Jtestrake@aol.com writes:
:
: << The predominant wormdrive type clamps on the XJ saloons are
: Norma clamps. These are hard to find if you’re looking for new
: replacements.
: Does anyone have any more info on these?
: John Testrake
: St. Louis, USA >>
:
: John they are available from “Worth” every size you need for your car.
:
: Bob…
:
: ===================================================
: The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
: FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
: Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html
:
: To remove yourself from this list, go to
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.
:

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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Bob and John: I thought that these were Jubilee clamps. I
have never heard
of “norma” clamps; is this the kind that has the metal cut
out (that is
“missing”) as opposed to simply punched through, leaving a
sort of serrated
finish? On the V12 engines, at least, there seems to have
been a mixture of
these clamps used from the factory. (I went through this last
year with
regard to a concours deduction)

Norma is the brand name of the clamp that was used on the XJ. These use a
series of ridges and valleys for the screw gear to engage. They do not have
any perforations in the metal, like nearly all other hose clamps do, such as
the Ideal brand, or others you’d typically find in an auto parts store.

The Jubilee brand is featured in the XK’s Unlimited catalog as being close
to OEM (no cuts through the band), but AFAIK it was never used by the
factory.===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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Gregory. The “Norma” clamps that “Worth” markets is a pressed clamp, meaning
it does not have cut outs in them. When I was researching the standards for
my Sovereign restoration these were what Jaguar told me was originally used
all over my car. After searching for nearly a year I finally I found them at
“Worth”

Bob.===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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Is that Worth or Wurth ( mit Das Umlaut ) ?

Peddlarbob@aol.com wrote:> Gregory. The “Norma” clamps that “Worth” markets is a pressed clamp, meaning

it does not have cut outs in them. When I was researching the standards for
my Sovereign restoration these were what Jaguar told me was originally used
all over my car. After searching for nearly a year I finally I found them at
“Worth”

Bob.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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===================================================
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At 01:12 PM 2/26/2002, you wrote:

Bob and John: I thought that these were Jubilee clamps. I have never heard
of “norma” clamps; is this the kind that has the metal cut out (that is
“missing”) as opposed to simply punched through, leaving a sort of serrated
finish? On the V12 engines, at least, there seems to have been a mixture of
these clamps used from the factory. (I went through this last year with
regard to a concours deduction)

The Jubilee clamps are British and the Norma clamps are what a lot of Bosch
EFI cars use.

There is also a manufacturer called Zebra that makes the worm drive, hex
head clamps so common on European cars.

These clamps are not cut through the whole way like the American car clamps
are…

Both my '91 VDP and the '94 XJ-12 I have here have Norma clamps on them and
I know them to be OE.

Cheers,

Jeb===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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In a message dated 2/26/02 11:02:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
aeb1barfo@yahoo.com writes:

<< Wurth >>===================================================
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After searching for nearly a year I finally I found them at
“Worth”

Dumb question perhaps, but who or what is “Worth”?

Larry Lee
Auburn, AL, USA===================================================
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Dumb question perhaps, but who or what is “Worth”?

Wurth is a German company that supplies very good quality lubricants and
fasteners to the trade. I know that most areas in the USA have distributers.
Try your Yellow pages or the web. If that doesn’t work I’ll get tyou the
number to my distributer.

Kevin===================================================

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===================================================
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In a message dated 2/26/02 3:13:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jlawrencelee@charter.net writes:

<< Dumb question perhaps, but who or what is “Worth”? >>

Larry I made a mistake with my posting as so many kind list members informed
me.
“Wurth” please note the correct spelling this time guys, is a World Wide
Company that specialises in hardware such as hose clamps, etc.

Bob.===================================================
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http://www.wurth.com/

– Charlie Lumps Admin.
– Customized 83 XJ6 /350/700R4/
– 1986 Jaguar XJ6 Vanden Plas.----- Original Message -----
From: “Kevin Hutcheson” hutch58@earthlink.net
To: “XJ LIST” xj@jag-lovers.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [xj] Re: [concours] Correct Clamps (was) More Coupe
Questions

Dumb question perhaps, but who or what is “Worth”?

Wurth is a German company that supplies very good quality lubricants
and
fasteners to the trade. I know that most areas in the USA have
distributers.
Try your Yellow pages or the web. If that doesn’t work I’ll get tyou
the
number to my distributer.

Kevin

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===================================================
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===================================================
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Hello all Originality Experts,

I have recently seen at least two US SIIIs with cut-type worm clamps on all
of the large radiator hoses, and the uncut-type Norma clamps on the air
intake fittings and other smaller hoses. Are the cut-type ones OE for the
large radiator hoses?

I have found that the Norma ones tend to strip (slip on the notches in the
band) when tightened very well, so I worry about installing them on the
critical radiator hoses (which I will consider if they are in fact OE, since
I would like as many detail items as possible to be original, if not all).

Thanks,
Hank
'84 XJ6 SIII US Federal===================================================
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At 03:15 PM 2/26/02, you wrote:

Dumb question perhaps, but who or what is “Worth”?

A higher end European consummables supplier.

They handle everything from bulbs to hardware. They rebox some good
products and they have some that only they make.

They make a product called Contact OL that is in-freakin’-credible.

If you have a British switch that is jammed up and corroded but not
actually broken…it will fix it EVERY time.

It is also amazing what the residual overage does to the chalked plastic.
It cleans off the chalkiness and brings back a lot or all of the switch’s
black plastic luster.

Gotta figure with my background that it’s pretty amazing stuff for me to be
slavering over the stuff.

I’m not quite sure why more British car people don’t know about it. It is
predominantly a German company but as good as this stuff is, I think every
British car owner should have a can.

I just sent Bob a link to Wurth Canada…here’s USA…

http://www.wurthusa.com/en/start.html

Ramble off…===================================================
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The cut-type ones were OE on the large radiator hoses, at least for the
hoses that connected the engine to the radiator. The Norma ones were used
for all the pipes that run along the radiator on a S3. The S2 cars used
different, uncut clamps for those. I’m not sure about the bottom hoses.

As a reference, take a very close look at the large radiator hoses on the
last S3 car in ORIGINAL JAGUAR XJ and you’ll see there are perforations in
the clamps.
-Steve A.

Hank wrote:>Hello all Originality Experts,

I have recently seen at least two US SIIIs with cut-type worm clamps on all
of the large radiator hoses, and the uncut-type Norma clamps on the air
intake fittings and other smaller hoses. Are the cut-type ones OE for the
large radiator hoses?

I have found that the Norma ones tend to strip (slip on the notches in the
band) when tightened very well, so I worry about installing them on the
critical radiator hoses (which I will consider if they are in fact OE, since
I would like as many detail items as possible to be original, if not all).

Thanks,
Hank
'84 XJ6 SIII US Federal

===================================================
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