[concours] Front suspension plating


(Robert Reid) #1

There was discussion last summer and early fall about plating the front
suspension. According to Haddock’s book, some 3.8 and 4.2 e-types left the
factory with these parts painted black and some were plated. It seems that
most people are plating them with cad. Steve Kemp recommended clear
chromate over the cad to protect the cad.

My question is: what parts of the suspension should be painted? Is it just
the upper control arms (otherwise known as the A arms or wishbones) or
should the lower suspension pieces and other parts be plated?

Bob Reid
61 OTS
69 FHC
73 OTS


(Steve Kemp) #2

Bob,

Hope you don’t have one of the first few hundred cars and followed my
generally-applicable advice to the letter. Only a sparse few cars, like perhaps
the first couple hundred(?), left with black painted suspension. That said, we
all know several famous concours outside bonnet lock cars that may fit within
this range, but they’re plated. So, did they plate just to keep life simple for
the judges? This I don’t know. If you look at Definitive E, you can see one
shot in which only parts of the suspension (hangers) are cad (pp 168). Probably
had an overstock of black A-arms about the time they started plating them and
this is the turning point. Looking at pp 166-67, you can see that a car with a
vent tube is painted black, while the white car with later crankcase vent is
cad. I’ve personally seen one 61 with black painted suspension. All the rest
were concours cars and plated. There are many early examples in Jaguar factory
photos that are plated as well, so we’ll probably never know the answer.

Looks like you may have a car qualifying for the cad/black look? Go for it.
Let’s give the judges a real challenge.

SK
62 OTS

Robert Reid wrote:> There was discussion last summer and early fall about plating the front

suspension. According to Haddock’s book, some 3.8 and 4.2 e-types left the
factory with these parts painted black and some were plated. It seems that
most people are plating them with cad. Steve Kemp recommended clear
chromate over the cad to protect the cad.

My question is: what parts of the suspension should be painted? Is it just
the upper control arms (otherwise known as the A arms or wishbones) or
should the lower suspension pieces and other parts be plated?

Bob Reid
61 OTS
69 FHC
73 OTS


(Richard Liggitt) #3

This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2) with
the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about cad
came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

While we are on the subject, does anyone out there know of a reputable
shop that does cad plating? I haven’t been able to find anyone in
California that is still willing to deal with the EPA. But there has to
be some die hards out there somewhere!

Robert Reid wrote:>

There was discussion last summer and early fall about plating the front
suspension. According to Haddock’s book, some 3.8 and 4.2 e-types left the
factory with these parts painted black and some were plated. It seems that
most people are plating them with cad. Steve Kemp recommended clear
chromate over the cad to protect the cad.

My question is: what parts of the suspension should be painted? Is it just
the upper control arms (otherwise known as the A arms or wishbones) or
should the lower suspension pieces and other parts be plated?

Bob Reid
61 OTS
69 FHC
73 OTS


(George Cohn) #4

Richard Liggitt wrote:

This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2) with
the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about cad
came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

For those of you that have the Practical Classics books, “E-Type Jaguar
Restoration”, note that the A arms and front suspension in that car is
painted black. The car was an English market '68 FHC.

On the other hand, my '70 US spec OTS has silver colored cad plated
front suspension that appears to be original. Again I wonder if this
was just a cost measure or problem with a supplier not being able to
supply cad plated hardware?_______________________________________________
George Cohn '70 OTS http://www.xke-lovers.com


(ToToogood@aol.com) #5

In a message dated 98-02-19 17:04:50 EST, you write:

<< does anyone out there know of a reputable
shop that does cad plating? I haven’t been able to find anyone in
California that is still willing to deal with the EPA. But there has to
be some die hards out there somewhere! >>

I had cad plating done in Nashville - but was very disappointed in the quality
for the price, so I won’t bother repeating the name. Years ago, in Victoria,
BC, I had a tin full of nuts and bolts/set screws cad plated for pocket
change. I can’t remember the name of the plater, but they did beautiful work.
They were located somewhere near the Esquamalt ship yards. I’ve heard the
ship yards are gone, maybe the plater too. Anyone in Victoria had recent
experience in the area?

Phillip


(George Badger) #6

Rich,
Check Hemmings for shops that cad plate. It is real nasty stuff to deal
with. There are alternatives that look very similar and are much more
green. There is a company that sells plate-it-yourself kits and I have
heard good things about them.–

   .-------------------------------------.
  / A lot of what appears to be progress  \
 /  is just so much technological rococo! /
 \  _______.-----------------------------'
_ |/

oo’
()\ _
\ \ .’ `.
\ \ /
\ '"
. ( )
'-| )–| :.
| | | | \ '.
c
; c__; ‘-…’>.__
GEO de Soquel
George M. Badger III/W3AB @George_Badger1 http://www.mbari.org/~geo


(Magowan, Richard M. (ISS)) #7

Eastwood has a CAD like paint kit that looks pretty fair. A friend of
mine did his brake booster with the stuff - not bad considering.-----Original Message-----
From: George Badger [SMTP:w3ab@qsl.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 5:31 PM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Front suspension plating

Rich,
Check Hemmings for shops that cad plate. It is real nasty stuff

to deal
with. There are alternatives that look very similar and are much
more
green. There is a company that sells plate-it-yourself kits and
I have
heard good things about them.

       .-------------------------------------.
      / A lot of what appears to be progress  \
     /  is just so much technological rococo! /
     \  _______.-----------------------------'
    _ |/
   oo\'
  (__)\       _
    \  \    .'  `.
     \  \  /      \
      \  '"        \
       .       (  ) \
        '-| )--| :.  \
          | |  | | \  '.
         c__; c__;  '-..'>.__
       GEO de Soquel
George M. Badger III/W3AB  w3ab@qsl.net

http://www.mbari.org/~geo


(Morris Halperin) #8

this is an interesting issue that i too would like to know. my 70 is in the
shop getting painted and i wouldn’t mind pulling the silver alum. a arms
and have them plated. does anyone else know anything about the dif. specs
on 1970
morris----------

From: George Cohn gwcohn@azstarnet.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Front suspension plating
Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 2:41 PM

Richard Liggitt wrote:

This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2) with
the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about
cad

came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

For those of you that have the Practical Classics books, “E-Type Jaguar
Restoration”, note that the A arms and front suspension in that car is
painted black. The car was an English market '68 FHC.

On the other hand, my '70 US spec OTS has silver colored cad plated
front suspension that appears to be original. Again I wonder if this
was just a cost measure or problem with a supplier not being able to
supply cad plated hardware?


George Cohn '70 OTS http://www.xke-lovers.com


(Ulysses Arretteig) #9

George:
Looking at the Practical Classics E type restoration I find that on
page 28, figure 20 (before rebuild) the upper A arm is a dull grey
finish, and on page 71, figure 117 indicates upper and lower A arms to
be finished in grey. The uprights are black.
My two E types (62 & 66) also had grey, or cadmium finished A arms with
black uprights.

Joe
66FHC


(Pearson, Tim) #10

With regards to the front suspension parts, years ago when I bought out
all the Jaguar parts from a dealer going out of business, I ended up
with some NOS suspension parts for E-Types. They are all cad or zinc
plated(probably cad). Zinc is what platers can do nowadays without
being impacted by the EPA. It looks close - just has a little tint of
blue.

What I have found with platers, if you take a bucket or box of parts you
wanted plated(zinc) they will do it for a very small charge.(They have
to be cleaned first) I had a five gallon pail of parts such as the
cover plates on the bulkhead, carb linkage, etc.and it only cost $30.> ----------

From: George Cohn[SMTP:gwcohn@azstarnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 4:41 PM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Front suspension plating

Richard Liggitt wrote:

This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2)
with
the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well
over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains
why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey
were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about
cad
came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

For those of you that have the Practical Classics books, “E-Type
Jaguar
Restoration”, note that the A arms and front suspension in that car is
painted black. The car was an English market '68 FHC.

On the other hand, my '70 US spec OTS has silver colored cad plated
front suspension that appears to be original. Again I wonder if this
was just a cost measure or problem with a supplier not being able to
supply cad plated hardware?


George Cohn '70 OTS http://www.xke-lovers.com


(Seppo Nikkila) #11

Hi E Type fellows,

    My 4.2 Litre S1 LHD FHC originally shipped to the States has
    black painted(?) A arms which look quite original. Could they
    have come that way from the factory? Should I consider plating?
    The engine is out and I am rebuilding my steering anyway, so
    now would be the time to do the suspension (or a part of it)
    as well -- but have to drive by April 16th :))

    Who's gonna be the hero to say the authorative final word about 
    the S1 A arm looks?

cYa,
sin~

At 12.21 1998-02-19 -0800, you wrote:>This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2) with

the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about cad
came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

While we are on the subject, does anyone out there know of a reputable
shop that does cad plating? I haven’t been able to find anyone in
California that is still willing to deal with the EPA. But there has to
be some die hards out there somewhere!

Robert Reid wrote:

There was discussion last summer and early fall about plating the front
suspension. According to Haddock’s book, some 3.8 and 4.2 e-types left the
factory with these parts painted black and some were plated. It seems that
most people are plating them with cad. Steve Kemp recommended clear
chromate over the cad to protect the cad.

My question is: what parts of the suspension should be painted? Is it just
the upper control arms (otherwise known as the A arms or wishbones) or
should the lower suspension pieces and other parts be plated?

Bob Reid
61 OTS
69 FHC
73 OTS


(Classic Jaguar (USA), Inc.) #12

My two penneth regarding E Type front suspension coatings:

I do not agree with Dr. Haddock. The first couple of hundred hundred E
Types undoubtedly had black front suspension arms from the factory. I
believe the practice stopped before the end of the outside latch
production, from which point they were plated - most likely cad plated. I
do not believe any 4.2 cars left the factory with black wishbones or
uprights.

I have found that when restoring early cars with black suspension, black
epoxy primer (such as ppg DP90) gives a pleasing look - very durable and
not too glossy.

I have yet to be satisfied with silver coloured plating, whether cad,
nickel, tin or zinc. The results have tended to be too shiny (space ship
silver), inconsistent, and not durable enough for regular use. Take a piece
of newly zinc coated suspension, leave it outside for one night, and it
will develop surface rust.

I believe the best results can be obtained by acid washing the stripped
pieces, priming them with an epoxy primer, and painting them a dullish
silver with a high quality paint (no spray cans!). It looks very original
and is extremely durable.

I think Eastwoods ‘cad plate’ paint is horrible.

One final point I would like to make. As JCNA rules proclude the inspection
of the wheel arches/suspension, etc, the suspension frames are not judged.
This being the case, why not go with something durable and original in
appearance, whilst not being strictly original? I am a firm believer in
stainless steel lines/nuts and bolts, etc. Even on a show car, why not have
stainless steel nuts and bolts ‘below the knee line’, and the traditional
rusty ones where the judge is allowed to look?!!

All of the above is simply my opinion drawn from years of E Type
restoration and ownership. I may be wrong! As is often the case with E Type
originality issues, who really knows? There will be a little old guy in the
Fox and Hounds in Coventry who knows the answers to all of our questions -
perhaps we should all band together and buy him a lap top and get him on
the www!!!

Dan Mooney----------

From: Seppo Nikkila sin@sin.pp.fi
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Front suspension plating
Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 6:07 AM

Hi E Type fellows,

    My 4.2 Litre S1 LHD FHC originally shipped to the States has
    black painted(?) A arms which look quite original. Could they
    have come that way from the factory? Should I consider plating?
    The engine is out and I am rebuilding my steering anyway, so
    now would be the time to do the suspension (or a part of it)
    as well -- but have to drive by April 16th :))

    Who's gonna be the hero to say the authorative final word about 
    the S1 A arm looks?

cYa,
sin~

At 12.21 1998-02-19 -0800, you wrote:

This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2) with
the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about cad
came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

While we are on the subject, does anyone out there know of a reputable
shop that does cad plating? I haven’t been able to find anyone in
California that is still willing to deal with the EPA. But there has to
be some die hards out there somewhere!

Robert Reid wrote:

There was discussion last summer and early fall about plating the
front

suspension. According to Haddock’s book, some 3.8 and 4.2 e-types
left the

factory with these parts painted black and some were plated. It seems
that

most people are plating them with cad. Steve Kemp recommended clear
chromate over the cad to protect the cad.

My question is: what parts of the suspension should be painted? Is it
just

the upper control arms (otherwise known as the A arms or wishbones) or
should the lower suspension pieces and other parts be plated?

Bob Reid
61 OTS
69 FHC
73 OTS


(Felts, Thomas L.) #13

Mance Plating in Imperial, Pa., used to do cad plating. Might give them a try. 412-695-0550

tom----------
From: ToToogood@aol.com[SMTP:ToToogood@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 5:13 PM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Front suspension plating

In a message dated 98-02-19 17:04:50 EST, you write:

<< does anyone out there know of a reputable
shop that does cad plating? I haven’t been able to find anyone in
California that is still willing to deal with the EPA. But there has to
be some die hards out there somewhere! >>

I had cad plating done in Nashville - but was very disappointed in the quality
for the price, so I won’t bother repeating the name. Years ago, in Victoria,
BC, I had a tin full of nuts and bolts/set screws cad plated for pocket
change. I can’t remember the name of the plater, but they did beautiful work.
They were located somewhere near the Esquamalt ship yards. I’ve heard the
ship yards are gone, maybe the plater too. Anyone in Victoria had recent
experience in the area?

Phillip


(Richard Liggitt) #14

I mentioned in an earlier thread that I had witnessed original cars with
black suspension. These were both a 4.2 SI and a 3.8 SI. There is
obviously an inconsistency from the factory here and that is where I am
confused.

Seppo Nikkila wrote:>

Hi E Type fellows,

    My 4.2 Litre S1 LHD FHC originally shipped to the States has
    black painted(?) A arms which look quite original. Could they
    have come that way from the factory? Should I consider plating?
    The engine is out and I am rebuilding my steering anyway, so
    now would be the time to do the suspension (or a part of it)
    as well -- but have to drive by April 16th :))

    Who's gonna be the hero to say the authorative final word about
    the S1 A arm looks?

cYa,
sin~

At 12.21 1998-02-19 -0800, you wrote:

This is an interesting point. I have witnessed factroy cars (4.2) with
the “A” arms painted black. I have seen pictures of this as well over
the years but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains why,
where, or when. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know if hey were
actually painted or simply black oxided. Since all the hoopla about cad
came up, Jag might have started experimenting with alternative
treatments. Might be worth investigating.

While we are on the subject, does anyone out there know of a reputable
shop that does cad plating? I haven’t been able to find anyone in
California that is still willing to deal with the EPA. But there has to
be some die hards out there somewhere!

Robert Reid wrote:

There was discussion last summer and early fall about plating the front
suspension. According to Haddock’s book, some 3.8 and 4.2 e-types left the
factory with these parts painted black and some were plated. It seems that
most people are plating them with cad. Steve Kemp recommended clear
chromate over the cad to protect the cad.

My question is: what parts of the suspension should be painted? Is it just
the upper control arms (otherwise known as the A arms or wishbones) or
should the lower suspension pieces and other parts be plated?

Bob Reid
61 OTS
69 FHC
73 OTS


(George Cohn) #15

Bounced - Forwarded to list.---------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:58:02 -0500
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
From: “Peter L. Wrisley” pwrisley@ma.ultranet.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Front suspension plating

I have to disagree with Dan Mooney - my '64 OTS has all black
painted front suspension parts - A-arms and uprights. I bought
this car in 1971, at which point it had been parked for 3 years
following accident damage. It had never been rebuilt or altered
(after all, it had only been on the road 4 years since new when
it was put away). The car is 880753 and according to it’s
Heritage Certificate was built 18 December 1963.

Pete Wrisley
Hollis, NH, USA


(Thomas Araujo) #16

Peter,

My car is also a '64 OTS (880275) - built 8 October 1963 - less than 500
cars before your.
I purchased it after it after it had been off the road with accident damage
since '72.
The front suspension was silver in color (probably cad plated).
Point being- there are always exceptions to the rule. Maybe the day they
built your car the
cad plater was sick. Who knows?? We will probably never know for sure.
If yours are black then keep them black. Mine are silver/gray I will keep
them silver/gray.
After a couple of years of driving mine will probably end up black from
road dirt anyway.
I doubt that the color of the front suspension will make the car drive any
better or worse.

Thomas J. Araujo
'64 OTS 3.8------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of
Reuters Ltd.


(Rick OBrien) #17

Parts are blasted and ready for finishing. My local plater
can do white (silver) cadmium but doesn’t offer a clear
chromate secondary coating. So the finish will be quite
dull. My question is how does this compare to the original
finish?

Thanks
Rick OBbrien
65 XKE fHc–


Oxford CT, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(alodmd) #18

In reply to a message from Rick OBrien sent Thu 1 Sep 2016:

Rick, it is the same as the factory, if you want a brighter
plating you can have your parts tumbled or use a smaller
glass beads. New method plating in Worchester MA did a lot
of plating for my 420 restoration. They do add a small
amount of brightener and the parts have a sheen.
Best,
Allen–
alodmd
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(Nick Saltarelli) #19

In reply to a message from Rick OBrien sent Thu 1 Sep 2016:

Rick, are you certain the plating is cadmium? There are
very few shops left with the enviromental clearance
required. The reason there are any is the aircraft
industry. No single electroplate is better for corrosion
proofing. If it is cad and not zinc, don’t worry about the
chromate. I had my parts cad plated and they look
original.–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(jcarey) #20

In reply to a message from Rick OBrien sent Thu 1 Sep 2016:

Rick,
I used a wire brish to gather a little more sheen on the
parts after plating then coated them with a preservation
wax called Rust Prevention Magic. Heat the part and spread
the wax on it then let it cool and buff to a nice sheen.–
The original message included these comments:

Parts are blasted and ready for finishing. My local plater
can do white (silver) cadmium but doesn’t offer a clear
chromate secondary coating. So the finish will be quite
dull. My question is how does this compare to the original
finish?
Rick OBbrien
65 XKE fHc


john carey : (888373) Bettie IV - my '63 S1 FHC
Los Gatos/California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php