[concours] Judging questions..s1 E


(PeteWilletts) #1

The judging guide says all cars left the factory
with ‘‘black inner fenders’’…does this mean
undercoated?..what exactly is the ‘inner fender’’??–
Pjwilletts 62 ots, 60 Bugeye sprite
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


(Robert and Darlene Stevenson) #2

The inner fender are the two panels bolted to the bonnet that enclose the upper parts of the wheels.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On May 19, 2015, at 1:12 PM, PeteWilletts pjwilletts@hotmail.com wrote:

The judging guide says all cars left the factory
with ‘‘black inner fenders’’…does this mean
undercoated?..what exactly is the ‘inner fender’’??


Pjwilletts 62 ots, 60 Bugeye sprite
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


(PeteWilletts) #3

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Tue 19 May 2015:

are you sure its not referring to the ‘mud shields’’?? hard to
believe the bonnet had two different colors whereas we all know
the shields were black…–
Pjwilletts 62 ots, 60 Bugeye sprite
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(Robert and Darlene Stevenson) #4

Of course you’re right! I can’t imagine what I was thinking of and thanks for the correction! The lower vertical panels(inner fenders in the judging guide) are always black.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On May 19, 2015, at 2:55 PM, PeteWilletts pjwilletts@hotmail.com wrote:

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Tue 19 May 2015:

are you sure its not referring to the ‘mud shields’’?? hard to
believe the bonnet had two different colors whereas we all know
the shields were black…

Pjwilletts 62 ots, 60 Bugeye sprite
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(AEX1194) #5

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Tue 19 May 2015:

Bob,

The S1 mud shields are black as per the Juges Guide but if
the bonnet and rear wheel inner fenders plus the underbody
have been undercoated, presumably by the original selling
dealer, what colour should the undercoating be painted to be
correct? As I understand it, there are two alternatives,
semi gloss black or body colour.

Jonathan–
AEX1194
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(Robert and Darlene Stevenson) #6

Actually the underside of the car plus what you can see through the wheels is not judged area per the JCNA Concours rule book.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, mi.On May 30, 2015, at 11:45 AM, AEX1194 jp7025@shaw.ca wrote:

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Tue 19 May 2015:

Bob,

The S1 mud shields are black as per the Juges Guide but if
the bonnet and rear wheel inner fenders plus the underbody
have been undercoated, presumably by the original selling
dealer, what colour should the undercoating be painted to be
correct? As I understand it, there are two alternatives,
semi gloss black or body colour.

Jonathan

AEX1194
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(AEX1194) #7

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Sat 30 May 2015:

Bob,

Thanks for confirming what I had believed to be the case but
was not sure.

Since there is no definite rule and with your experience,
which alternative would you take, black or body colour or
remove undercoating and paint body colour?

Jonathan–
AEX1194
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(Robert and Darlene Stevenson) #8

I personally would never have a car that’s actually used, not a garage or trailer queen, with the bottom side, wheel wells, etc that weren’t undercoated to protect from road debris etc. Being basically lazy I paint the undercoated wheel wells etc with exterior flat black latex paint which makes it easy to keep clean and repaint when it starts to look shabby.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On May 30, 2015, at 3:23 PM, AEX1194 jp7025@shaw.ca wrote:

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Sat 30 May 2015:

Bob,

Thanks for confirming what I had believed to be the case but
was not sure.

Since there is no definite rule and with your experience,
which alternative would you take, black or body colour or
remove undercoating and paint body colour?

Jonathan


AEX1194
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(AEX1194) #9

In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Sat 30 May 2015:

Bob,

You have made my day as someone once said. I will paint the
wheel wells and underbody undercoat flat black and leave the
mud shields which are not undercoated, semigloss black.

Thanks for the good advice.

Jonathan–
AEX1194
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


(tom keohan) #10

In reply to a message from AEX1194 sent Sat 30 May 2015:

During my research on this topic I’ve found a couple of
sources that agree. In Keith Martin’s book, Keith Martin on
Collecting Jaguar, he discusses this in a Q&A section.
According to him, the factory applied a coating to E-Types
on the underside of the monocoque. I’ve also seen this in
the front wheel wells on several unrestored cars. This
coating, called ‘‘Flintkote’’ was then painted body color. It
appears that it was applied by brush as you can see the
brush marks. Martin suggests it was applied by a trowel-
but it makes more sense it was applied by a brush or
sprayed on at the factory. As Martin points out, many cars
were ‘‘undercoated’’ by dealers as a common practice. This
the black tar-like coatings seen. Most restores do not try
to duplicate the factory Flintkote because it is not that
attractive. On my '66 I left the flintkote, albeit painted
black, which you can also see the brush marks. I’ve also
found some Jag-Lovers Forum discussion on the topic
agreeing with Martin.On early cars, they were most always
given the tar-like undercoating by the dealer prior to
selling them- especially in England, were rust is a major
issue. I’ve seen a USA dealer bill of sale for an SI
E-Type showing ‘‘undercoating’’ as an option for $15.00, as
are the chrome wire wheels an option along with whitewall
tires.

The back wheel wells also have the factory coating, which
is thicker and sprayed on as is the under sides of the
monocoque. If you follow the research- the rear wheel
wells where likely painted as well. That leaves a question
about the under monocoque- presumably the factory coating
was painted over as well. However I’ve seen several
reported original unrestored E-Types with black painted
undersides. The sub-frames have no factory coating as they
were assembled after the car was painted. When I started
the restoration of my car 20 some years ago it was typical
that the wheel wells of restored E-Types were painted black
with undercoating- not sure why. I do recall that the bead
blasters back then could not get the factory Flintkote off
the car and so left it, as was the case with my car. Modern
paint removal processes today maybe can now remove it, or
possibly restorers like the cleaner look and thus take the
time to remove it prior to painting.–
The original message included these comments:

Bob,
You have made my day as someone once said. I will paint the
wheel wells and underbody undercoat flat black and leave the
mud shields which are not undercoated, semigloss black.


Tom K., 1966 E-Type Coupe
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php