[concours] Re: Concours Digest V1 #193

In a message dated 8/14/01 9:51:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
owner-concours-digest@jag-lovers.org writes:

<< The approach can be used for all of the various componets of the car.For
example, a seat cushion individually would have a max deduct of 3.4 points.
Penalizing close to this for wear or fading or a hole on a single seat
would appear excessive, though it might not be close to the overall car max.

Am I going off into left field here?
-Steve A.
'67 E Type Coupe
'76 XJ6C
'91 XJ40 >>

Steve, I don’t think you are off base at all on this issue What I’m missing
on this entire discourse is the fine line between the “spirit & the intent”
of the rule book and the basis for there being a preservation class being
painted with the same brush and judged with the same score sheets as the
other cars. Come on everbody and give the judges a break. There are cars
that are “just dragged out from the barn” as well as “just been dragged out
from the Museum” and “No, I SWEAR thats original, if it was repainted it must
have been done at the port OE, no record.” .Maybe valid or not

Lets get real, what are we going to have to resort to, carbon dating of paint
& leather? Spirit and intent of our sport? Maybe some rethinking needs to
happen on the judging sheets for preservation class? Or maybe some realistic
calls by our judges in absence of any definitive rules?"… My personal
opinion that I am sure will stir up some unwanted debate is that these
Jaguars be in a “Display Class” as antiquities and be observed and
appreciated as they should as just that. Let me know what you think in a
constructctive manner. These are simply some thoughts that I had.
Certainly the existing classes should remain and be judged as such.

                                                David

David,
I completely agree with your assessment and concern over cars in
Preservation Class. The idea of honoring genuinely original cars is
great and I would be the first to suggest they be parked where everyone
can admire them.

However, I am equally convinced they should not be judged because of the
difficulty, if not impossibility, of discriminating, for example, on a
40 year old car, between original 40 year old paint and paint that may
have been replaced 25 to 30 years ago. Even long time owners can’t
always remember what’s original and what they themselves have changed.
Ask me how I know.

Regards,
Dick Cavicke

…and what about the items that were replaced by previous owners? I believe
the concept of the class is good, in practice the concept is difficult to
achieve.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
1952 XK120 Rdstr (w/ XK140 C head) S673129
1958 Mark 1 / 1984 XJ6 / 1985,6,7 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (www.cableone.net/jcca)

However, I am equally convinced they should not be judged because of the
difficulty, if not impossibility, of discriminating, for example, on a
40 year old car, between original 40 year old paint and paint that may
have been replaced 25 to 30 years ago. Even long time owners can’t
always remember what’s original and what they themselves have changed.
Ask me how I know.

Regards,
Dick Cavicke

Mark,
I don’t know if I mentioned it before, but I can get 10 year certified
(Arizona) on previous owners on any vehicle here is Arizona and would be
willing to do so for club members for $10 plus cost of records. Sometimes I
can get more years, depending on the purge process.
I don’t know if this is something that can be used in the documentation
arena but it does authenticate a history and mileage records.
I can get copies of previous titles as well. If the car has changed hands a
couple times, it will identify the owner before the one that a member is
buying the piece from, and that person can be contacted for information on
the car.
If someone is looking for hot-shot information for a purchase, I can get a
turn around in less than 24 hours here in Arizona.
The $10 fee is just to cover the gas and time of getting down to MVD to make
the searches.
Smitty

J. Rick Smith, Q.P.
G.S.I. INVESTIGATIONS�
License No. 8612001
Phoenix, Arizona----- Original Message -----
From: “Mark Stephenson” marks@trnpa.com
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: RE: [concours] Re: Concours Digest V1 #193

…and what about the items that were replaced by previous owners? I
believe
the concept of the class is good, in practice the concept is difficult to
achieve.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
1952 XK120 Rdstr (w/ XK140 C head) S673129
1958 Mark 1 / 1984 XJ6 / 1985,6,7 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (Internet Service Provider, TV & Phone | Sparklight)

However, I am equally convinced they should not be judged because of the
difficulty, if not impossibility, of discriminating, for example, on a
40 year old car, between original 40 year old paint and paint that may
have been replaced 25 to 30 years ago. Even long time owners can’t
always remember what’s original and what they themselves have changed.
Ask me how I know.

Regards,
Dick Cavicke


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Could the MOD at this list please address this with the member listed below.
As you can see in his message, this person directs me to open the attachment
which was a virus. This message was sent twice to me.
Could the MOD contact me off list about this situation?
Thank you,
Smitty----- Original Message -----
From: “76 XJ12L” <@76_XJ12L>
To: lumps@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [concours] Re: Concours Digest V1 #193

Follow-Up:
This is the message after quarantine of the virus.

This file: “YOU_are_FAT!.TXT.zlo” was infected with the:
“W32.Badtrans.13312@mm” virus.
The file was quarantined by Norton AntiVirus. Monday, September 03, 2001
22:23

Someone let the Concourse mod know.
Smitty

----- Original Message -----
From: “Dick” richardhowe@home.com
To: <@76_XJ12L>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [concours] Re: Concours Digest V1 #193

‘76 XJ12L’ wrote:

  • Mark,
  • I don’t know if I mentioned it before, but I can get 10 year certified
  • (Arizona) on previous owners on any vehicle here is Arizona and would be
  • willing to do so for club members for $10 plus cost of records.
    Sometimes
    I
  • can get more years, depending on the purge process.
  • I don’t know if this is something that can be used in the documentation
  • arena but it does authenticate a history and mileage records.
  • I can get copies of previous titles as well. If the …’

Take a look to the attachment.


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