[concours] Re: Driven?

I, too, was surprised by the number of responses to the original query.
I prepared an input a couple of days ago but deleted it when I realized
it really didn’t answer all of the questions. This try won’t either.

I’m a firm believer that Driven=Driven but can also be sympathetic to
the owner who described the scenario of trying to bring his family and
his “Driven Division” car to a distant event. I don’t know how the rules
alone could be rewritten to cover all such circumstances.

Possibly an honor or personal certification system could be combined
with rules which preserve the intent of Driven Division while allowing
specific exceptions at least for National/International events.

One of our club members displays a sign on his Series 2 E-type which
reads: “If you see this car on a trailer, it’s been stolen.” If I had a
trailer rig, maybe I’d use it. However, in spite of the cleaning effort
required at the destination, it’s really a lot of fun driving to events
and meeting folks along the way. Do I worry about wearing it out? The
car(s) seem to look outstanding every year, I’m the one that’s wearing
out;… they’ll be here long after I’m gone.

Regards,

Dick Cavicke
Champion Division
120 FHC, OTS

Poppycock. They DO, in fact, trailer cars in England despite rules. As an
example, on page 3 of the December 1988 issue of “Thoroughbred & Classic
Cars,” is written “For a start, I know that a few cars have been trailered
to and from events, or at least to and from points near events! I spotted
one myself after the Grand Final, being surreptitiously loaded up about
five miles down the road.”

The writer goes on to say “What’s so bad about trailers? It’s simple: if
you allow them, the cars cease to be usable vehicles. They will become mere
exhibits and before long you will find people using covered, sealed
containers for concours cars.” Nuff said, but I’ll add a tad more anyway
since I’m not IN England.

In my book, if the car isn’t driven, it isn’t really a car anymore. That
goes for Champion Division and Driven alike. As Mike Moore says, taking a
25 year-old car for a long trip can be an adventure, but with a cell phone
and AAA-Plus, it needn’t be more than that. There’s nothing like a few
couple hundred mile drives to ensure that some attention gets paid to the
mechanical condition of the car. And yes, since my '76 Coupe was built in
September of 1975, it’s just a hair over 25 years old. I’d probably feel a
bit more trepedation about taking an SS with mechanical brakes out into
possibly adverse conditions, but I’d do it or not go. The only times I’d
trailer is if I needed to take the motorhome and the car somwhere with only
one driver or if the car wasn’t street legal. One ought to make an
exception for the D-type - as long as it gets run on a track.
-Steve A.
'67 E Type Coupe
'76 XJ6C
'91 XJ40---------------------------------------
Len Wheeler wrote, explaining why cars supposedly aren’t trailered in England:

They can drive clear across England in a day, I don’t relish driving
my E across the desert from Arizona to California just to enter a
Concours. I drive my E’s all throughout Arizona but out here where
there can be hundreds of miles between towns it is not prudent to
take off with a 25 year old car. I agree with you that driven should
be that, driven but I think there has to be some consideration for
the distances involved.

Well said, Steve. Trailering may make for a beautiful car but also makes for
a very sad Jaguar.

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA

The writer goes on to say “What’s so bad about trailers? It’s simple: if
you allow them, the cars cease to be usable vehicles. They will become
mere----- Original Message -----
From: “Steve Averill” averill@earthlink.net
exhibits and before long you will find people using covered, sealed
containers for concours cars.” Nuff said, but I’ll add a tad more anyway
since I’m not IN England.

In my book, if the car isn’t driven, it isn’t really a car anymore. That
goes for Champion Division and Driven alike. As Mike Moore says, taking a
25 year-old car for a long trip can be an adventure, but with a cell phone
and AAA-Plus, it needn’t be more than that. There’s nothing like a few
couple hundred mile drives to ensure that some attention gets paid to the
mechanical condition of the car.

I know this is a tender subject for many on both sides of the coin and I
really hesitate to comment further…but will, only in the spirit that it’s
hopefully constructive and y’all agree not to flood my email with hate mail
:slight_smile:

My hat is off to those who drive their car great distances to a show. And I
believe the driven class reflects the recognition of this special group of
enthusiasts. Although I don’t have a rulebook, I checked out the Concour
rules on the JCNA site and it says that driven cars are to be driven…no
mention of trailer…or, how far other than both driven and championship
class require the cars to be driven onto the display site. Perhaps no
further explanation is there for a reason and that being to increase the
number of participants, level the field between he who lives two miles away
vs a greater distance, to best preserve the marque, types, and years, and to
just generally be a good thing for all attending as owners or viewing guests?

To suggest that a car not driven is automatically “no longer a car” or “not
in good mechanical shape” while certainly worth some good fun discussing over
a good scotch…is as presumptuous as suggesting that any car not restored to
its “best possible elegance” is not worthy of showing. Both extremes seem
more likely to be concealing either a bad case of sour grapes or some
unwarranted elitist bunk.

Like99% of everyone else I see at a concours, owners or guests, I look at
ALL the cars and appreciate each and every one as the work of art or work
in progress that they represent. I suppose that’s a simplistic approach but
it’s one I’m very comfortable with at any gathering, car show, or concours.

Bob Hotaling
69 OTS

I think the very, very best restored cars at shows are important because they set a standard to aspire to, no matter how they get there.

I think the DIY and drive it to the show folks are imprtant because they are the backbone of the hobby.

Best Regards to Both,

Mike Moore
63 OTS WIP
70 S1 SWB

I’ll add my 2� here, too.

There’s room for everyone, IMHO. If it was just a bunch of motorheads like
me (and I’m not that great of a motorhead), who love to drive the cars, and
fix things when they need fixing, the hobby would be the poorer for it.

It’s the people, by and large, who create the trailer queens, who do the
research required to reproduce to exacting detail the way the car was when
it rolled off the assembly line. Whether something was a slotted screw or a
Phillips, means little to me. I have an alternator on my XK120. (I saved the
generator, though.) But it’s the discussions – on the XK list in
particular – that I find fascinating. Rexine, what material was used for
the headliner on the DHCs, what color are the prop rods supposed to be, the
seat frame color, and when did these things change? When did the flat XK140
style horn button first appear on the XK120s. All these little details give
us insight into the thinking at Jaguar during that time, how the factory
functioned, right down to what the guys on the assembly line did.

Honestly, as unoriginal as my XK120 is, research on these questions would
have been a total waste of time for me. But to the people who are spending
literally thousands of dollars to bring these cars to absolutely correct
status, these questions are important.

Blame it on my economic status, but if I had spent $100,000 and countless
hours on such a detailed restoration, I’d be scared to drive the car on the
road. That is why I purposely looked for a non-matching-numbers car.
Considering that I have spent less than a decent new car for my XK120, I
have no problem taking it out, and I happily try to do that at least once a
week.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
1952 XK120 Roadster #S673129 (w/XK140 engine and C head)
1958 3.4 Litre Saloon / 1984 XJ6 4.2L / 1985 XJ6 VDP / 1986 XJ6 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (USA) – Internet Service Provider, TV & Phone | Sparklight Original Message -----
From: MMoore8425@aol.com
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [concours] Re: Driven?

I think the very, very best restored cars at shows are important because
they set a standard to aspire to, no matter how they get there.

I think the DIY and drive it to the show folks are imprtant because they
are the backbone of the hobby.

Best Regards to Both,

Mike Moore
63 OTS WIP
70 S1 SWB