[concours] Re:Minimum standard

Hi List,

I have a 53 120 SE which I am getting back to driving condition. It hasn’t
run in 38 years. It is a tattered original. It has spots of rust all over
the body that make it look sort of like a Jaguar with a bad coat. The engine
hasn’t run yet but it is now free and has potential. I have replaced the
brake system, exhaust, and have purchased a fire extinquisher for the
electrical system, as mice have eaten all of the cotton off of the wires, but
oxidation has kept shorts to a minimum. The tires appear to be original as
is the hood which has some holes. At our club’s last concours, most cars
were 99 +/- 1 . Would it be proper to enter it in the show or driven class
to see what points are obtainable before cosmetically restoring the car?
Obviously the car is not going to win but it would be interesting to see what
points it could earn. If it is the only car in its class and scores 20
points, is it a winner?? What are the minimum standards of condition for a
car to be judged??

Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI.

If it is the only car in its class and scores 20
points, is it a winner?? What are the minimum standards of condition for
a
car to be judged??

Minimum scores are :

First place 90 points (9.0 driven class)
Second Place 80 points (8.0 driven class)
Third place 70 points (7.0 driven class)

For preservation class the minimums are 80-75-70

Cheers
Doug Dwyer----- Original Message -----
From: Diecuts@aol.com

Hi, Lee -

In my humble opinion, if it’s running, it’s a winner! I fervently believe
that the cars are for DRIVING, not parking! Of course, it helps if they
look nice, too! An entry as a driven car will do two things - give you a
judging baseline from which to start, identifying those areas where you
should concentrate first, to gain the most from your efforts; remember, the
better the car, the more effort will be necessary to notice improvement
(law of diminishing returns). You’ll also provide competition for more
cars in that class, and, depending on the judging procedures followed, more
opportunity for more trophies to be awarded, thus increasing everyone’s
enjoyment!

Good luck with it!

Larry Schear
Twin Cam, Inc.

At 01:45 AM 8/11/01 -0400, you wrote:>Hi List,

I have a 53 120 SE which I am getting back to driving condition. It hasn’t
run in 38 years. It is a tattered original. It has spots of rust all over
the body that make it look sort of like a Jaguar with a bad coat. The engine
hasn’t run yet but it is now free and has potential. I have replaced the
brake system, exhaust, and have purchased a fire extinquisher for the
electrical system, as mice have eaten all of the cotton off of the wires, but
oxidation has kept shorts to a minimum. The tires appear to be original as
is the hood which has some holes. At our club’s last concours, most cars
were 99 +/- 1 . Would it be proper to enter it in the show or driven class
to see what points are obtainable before cosmetically restoring the car?
Obviously the car is not going to win but it would be interesting to see what
points it could earn. If it is the only car in its class and scores 20
points, is it a winner?? What are the minimum standards of condition for a
car to be judged??

Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI.

Lee,

Bringing your 120 back to life is definitely something to be celebrated
and by all means, bring it to your club’s concours. That being said,
from your brief description of its condition, I would be quick to add…
please, just bring it to “Display” and not to be judged.

I have had the misfortune of judging several cars that the owners
entered “just to find out what was wrong with them”; it took forever and
was a waste of both my time and that of other entrants in the same
class. It is impossible for a car that is in poor condition to be
properly judged and scored within the recommended 15 minute time period
and I believe it is a disservice to the judges and the concours program
to enter cars which are clearly below the expected standard.

Because the JCNA scoring system is based on deductions, (and flawed in
other ways) and judges are used to taking off only tenths-of-a-point per
fault, it takes a long time and some big hits to accumulate enough
deductions to bring a score down even into the low 90’s. Judges may
simply give up on really poor cars by giving them enough deductions to
put them out of serious contention for winning, however, in a small
class, the car may still end up with enough points for a trophy.

If you want an assessment of your car’s condition and what should be
done next, there’ll be plenty of people to give you advice at the
concours without entering your car for judging. Even the judges would
likely be happy to spend time with you after they’re done with their
official score keeping.

Celebrating “Be kind to Concours Judge’s month”,

Dick Cavicke
Chief Judge, San Diego Jaguar Club

I must say I have mixed feelings about this thread. They follow:

Much depends on how ORIGINAL the tattered original is. I would take the car
to someone who really knew a lot about the model for an assessment in that
regard. Despite the car’s marginal condition, there are very few really
ORIGINAL XK120 cars and it should be considered as a possible Class 18
entry - Preservation Class. It has value as an autheticity reference.

I would also STRONGLY recommend that the car be FULLY prepared prior to a
show even if it isn’t to be restored in any way. It should be as absolutely
nice as it is possible to be. I am sure that Dick would agree with that
sentiment. I plan to show my own E-type next year and work will not be
fully complete during its shakedown season.

My E-type will not be competitive next year. I’ve seen and judged way too
many E-types to be under any illusions about that. But it’ll be well
prepared and the faults will be based on a balance between funds and the
rules. And it’ll go in Champion Division from the start. That’s what I did
with my XJ6C and, looking back, it was absolutely the correct approach to
take. This time, I have more experience in the process and will make less
mistakes.

I’m sure that Dick would not object to a car that is well prepared by an
owner that has done his homework, even with a reasonably small number of
areas containing egregious faults. That is not what wastes the judging
team’s time. What wastes their time is a car that is brought in rusty, with
cobwebs and all kinds of easy-to-fix stuff that the owner has not taken the
time to address. They WILL feel offended at being asked to give their time
unless you have also given your own and I think THAT is the heart of Dick’s
sentiment.
-Steve A.
'67 E Type Coupe
'76 XJ6C
'91 XJ40

Larry Schear wrote:

In my humble opinion, if it’s running, it’s a winner! I fervently believe
that the cars are for DRIVING, not parking! Of course, it helps if they
look nice, too! An entry as a driven car will do two things
in response to Lee Jacobsen, who wrote:

I have a 53 120 SE which I am getting back to driving condition. It hasn’t
run in 38 years. It is a tattered original.
And Dick Cavicke wrote:
Bringing your 120 back to life is definitely something to be celebrated
and by all means, bring it to your club’s concours. That being said,
from your brief description of its condition, I would be quick to add…
please, just bring it to “Display” and not to be judged.