[concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses

In a message dated 98-08-19 09:27:44 EDT, you write [concerning turn signal
lenses]: << I don’t` know for sure but I don’t think the regs changes
between '62 and '64. Hope this helps. >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually the regulations changed starting with the 1963 model year. That year
front turn signals would be required to be amber, either by tinted bulb or
amber lens.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

Not so fast Kemosabe. In California the exact quote from the 1998 motor
vehicle code states: Turn Signal Lamps
24953. (a) Any turn signal system used to give a signal of
intention
to turn right or left shall project a flashing white or amber light
visible
to the front and a flashing red or amber light visible to the rear.

As you can see, the front lights can be white OR amber.> -----Original Message-----

From: J1J2WALKER@aol.com [mailto:J1J2WALKER@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 2:46 PM
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses

In a message dated 98-08-19 09:27:44 EDT, you write
[concerning turn signal
lenses]: << I don’t` know for sure but I don’t think the
regs changes
between '62 and '64. Hope this helps. >>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually the regulations changed starting with the 1963 model
year. That year
front turn signals would be required to be amber, either by
tinted bulb or
amber lens.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

Yes, the code probably does say that, however you will notice that it does not
state that vehicles sold as 1963 or later models may have either white or
amber signals. I suspect that law is witten to encompass both pre and post 63
models as applicable, and you may even pass an inspection with each, but I
don’t believe they could be manufactured and sold with white front signals
starting with the 1963 models. The federal laws that cover this are known as
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). I think this one was FMVSS
108.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

In a message dated 98-08-20 12:46:12 EDT, you write:

<< Subj: RE: [concours] Re: Turn Signal LensesDate: 98-08-20 12:46:12 EDT
From: LWalden@ebmud.com (Walden, Lee)
Sender: owner-concours@jag-lovers.org
Reply-to: concours@jag-lovers.org
To: concours@jag-lovers.org (‘concours@jag-lovers.org’)

Not so fast Kemosabe. In California the exact quote from the 1998 motor
vehicle code states: Turn Signal Lamps
24953. (a) Any turn signal system used to give a signal of
intention
to turn right or left shall project a flashing white or amber light
visible
to the front and a flashing red or amber light visible to the rear.

As you can see, the front lights can be white OR amber.

-----Original Message-----
From: @J1J2WALKER [mailto:@J1J2WALKER]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 2:46 PM
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses

In a message dated 98-08-19 09:27:44 EDT, you write
[concerning turn signal
lenses]: << I don’t` know for sure but I don’t think the
regs changes
between '62 and '64. Hope this helps. >>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually the regulations changed starting with the 1963 model
year. That year
front turn signals would be required to be amber, either by
tinted bulb or
amber lens.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

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From: “Walden, Lee” LWalden@ebmud.com
To: “‘concours@jag-lovers.org’” concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:34:50 -0700
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Sorry again, but both my 1966 and my brother’s 1966 Mark X’s both have
clear (white) lenses and clear bulbs for the front turn signals.
Brother’s Mark X has been in the family since it was picked up at the
factory in July 66. Lee-----Original Message-----
From: J1J2WALKER@aol.com [mailto:J1J2WALKER@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 15:23 PM
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses

Yes, the code probably does say that, however you will notice that it
does not
state that vehicles sold as 1963 or later models may have either white
or
amber signals. I suspect that law is witten to encompass both pre and
post 63
models as applicable, and you may even pass an inspection with each, but
I
don’t believe they could be manufactured and sold with white front
signals
starting with the 1963 models. The federal laws that cover this are
known as
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). I think this one was
FMVSS
108.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

In a message dated 98-08-20 12:46:12 EDT, you write:

<< Subj: RE: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses
Date: 98-08-20 12:46:12 EDT
From: @Walden_Lee (Walden, Lee)
Sender: owner-concours@jag-lovers.org
Reply-to: concours@jag-lovers.org
To: concours@jag-lovers.org (‘concours@jag-lovers.org’)

Not so fast Kemosabe. In California the exact quote from the 1998
motor
vehicle code states: Turn Signal Lamps
24953. (a) Any turn signal system used to give a signal of
intention
to turn right or left shall project a flashing white or amber light
visible
to the front and a flashing red or amber light visible to the rear.

As you can see, the front lights can be white OR amber.

-----Original Message-----
From: J1J2WALKER@aol.com [mailto:J1J2WALKER@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 2:46 PM
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses

In a message dated 98-08-19 09:27:44 EDT, you write
[concerning turn signal
lenses]: << I don’t` know for sure but I don’t think the
regs changes
between '62 and '64. Hope this helps. >>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually the regulations changed starting with the 1963 model
year. That year
front turn signals would be required to be amber, either by
tinted bulb or
amber lens.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

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From: “Walden, Lee” <@Walden_Lee>
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Subject: RE: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:34:50 -0700
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don’t believe they could be manufactured and sold with white front
signals
starting with the 1963 models. The federal laws that cover this are
known as
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). I think this one was
FMVSS
108.

Regards, John Walker
69 2+2

John,
I took delivery of my 63 OTS with white turn signal lenses, not sure, but
may be the law enacted in 63 effected 64 models.
Chuck

Thank you to all who responded to my question regarding the 1962 MK2
with amber front turn signal lenses. Your inputs enabled me to conclude
that California never mandated amber lenses and in fact still allows
either clear or amber lenses for the front signals. The car was
delivered with clear lenses and it should still have them. An amber bulb
could have been installed if the owner desired.

As a result, the 2.0 point deduction for the car’s having the wrong
color lenses (1.0 ea) has been allowed to stand.

Additional commentary always welcomed.

Whoa. Hold on. Check this out…

49 CFR Ch. V (10-1-96 Edition) � 571.108
TABLE III-REQUIRED MOTOR VEHICLE LIGHTING EQUIPMENT
[All Passenger Cars and Motorcycles, and Multipurpose Passenger
Vehicles, Trucks, Buses and Trailers of Less Than 80 (2032)Inches (M)
Overall Width]
Turn signal lamps 2 red or amber; 2 amber SAE J588, November 1984.

TABLE IV-LOCATION OF REQUIRED EQUIPMENT
All Passenger Cars and Motorcycles, and Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles,
Trucks, Trailers, and Buses of Less Than 80 Inches Overall Width

Turn signal lamps … At or near the front-1 amber on
each side of the vertical center-line,
at the same height, and as
far apart as practicable.

On the rear-1 red or amber on
each side of the vertical center-line,
at the same height, and as
far apart as practicable.

At or near the front-1 amber on each
side of the vertical centerline at the
same height, and having a minimum
horizontal separation distance (center-line
of lamps) of 16 inches. Minimum
edge to edge separation distance between
lamp and headlamp is 4 inches.

At or near the rear-1 red or amber on
each side of the vertical centerline, at
the same height and having a minimum
horizontal separation distance (center-line
to centerline of lamps) of 9 inches.
Minimum edge to edge separation dis-tance
between lamp and tail or stop
lamp is 4-inches, when a single stop
and taillamp is installed on the vertical
centerline and the turn signal lamps are
red…
No requirement.
Not less than 15
inches, nor more
than 83 inches.

So the point can be made that the federal standard calls for Amber
turnsignals on the front, eventhough the CA State regs state
that either white or amber are acceptable.

Punt.

Lee

Lee,
Great information from the “TABLE III-REQUIRED MOTOR VEHICLE LIGHTING
EQUIPMENT”.

Is there any text which indicates whether the standard (“SAE J588,
November 1984”) meant that the requirement applied to new production
vehicles from that time on and/or whether older vehicles had to be
retrofitted? Are there exceptions for antique or other classifications
or years of vehicles?

Thanks.

What I did was find the US Codes and thats where I stumbled across the
section on automotive lighting. The code bas has the past three years
listed, 98, 97, 96. I was planning on visiting the SAE pg to see if
theirs went back any farther. Lee-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Cavicke [mailto:f8driver@pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 10:05 PM
To: concours@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [concours] Re: Turn Signal Lenses

Lee,
Great information from the “TABLE III-REQUIRED MOTOR VEHICLE LIGHTING
EQUIPMENT”.

Is there any text which indicates whether the standard (“SAE J588,
November 1984”) meant that the requirement applied to new production
vehicles from that time on and/or whether older vehicles had to be
retrofitted? Are there exceptions for antique or other classifications
or years of vehicles?

Thanks.