[concours] Re: [xj] Fw: Chrome wheels on SIII,

Plus, this becomes kind of a hit and miss situation depending on who is
judging. If the judge isn’t completely knowledgable about the XJ6, it
very
likely that they wouldn’t deduct for wire wheels or any ‘incorrect’ wheel
fitted to other Jaguars.

At the Portland Concours in September (my first go as a Judge, albeit
“apprentice” variety) one of the members on my team was preparing to walk
away from a mid-sixties 3.8 S-type which had the XJ6 chrome Turbo wheels
without giving a deduction for them. When I mentioned the oversight he
replied “Oh, I’m glad you caught that”. I was non-plussed, to say the least,
that such a glaring issue was about to go unmentioned.

Ah well…

Cheers,
Doug

We should probably move this to the Concours list, eh ?----- Original Message -----
From: “Chuck Renner” crenner@dynalivery.com

Doug,
Really surprised to hear that…granted I have an S-type so maybe I notice
things regading these more than others but I’d think XJ6 wheels would stand
right out on an S-type. But it does bring to mind how many jag people that
I’ve met at show’s and jag meets that aren’t too aware of models other than
E-types and XK120/140/150 so I suppose I could see how it was overlooked.

At the Portland Concours in September (my first go as a Judge, albeit
“apprentice” variety) one of the members on my team was preparing to walk
away from a mid-sixties 3.8 S-type which had the XJ6 chrome Turbo wheels
without giving a deduction for them. When I mentioned the oversight he
replied “Oh, I’m glad you caught that”. I was non-plussed, to say the
least,
that such a glaring issue was about to go unmentioned.

Chris Burdo
1965 3.8S(MOD)
Canterbury,Connecticut,USA
Jaguar Club of Connecticut_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

By rights, the 7" lamps should be a deduction.

The rulebook says “The item must be as it was specified and intended to
leave the factory by Jaguar Cars.”

Jaguar did not intend USA-bound cars to leave the factory with 7" headlamps,
so they should be a deduction if fitted to a USA car. Similarly, Jaguar did
not intend that the USA-bound SerIII cars be fitted with the chrome Turbo
wheels.

Seven-inch lamps allowed but chrome wheels disallowed? Don’t ask me to
explain it…

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
Trying to get this over to the Concours list where it belongs…

The rule as I understand it (with the exception of leapers) is that if it
came out of the factory with the item on it, then it passes the concours
test and is not a deduction. Am I correct?

Therefore, if the chrome Turbo wheels were available in some market, any
market, for the S3, would they not then be acceptable for concours
purposes?----- Original Message -----
From: “Mark Stephenson” marks@jaguarot.com
After all, there is no deduction AFAIK for 7" headlights because S3s came
out of the factory with them, albeit for markets other than the U.S.

There’s some ambiguity there. You can do a Clintonian dissection of the
words “item” and “specified” and argue that the rulebook refers to a
specific car, or you can argue the more general sense that if cars left
the
factory with any of a number of items specified for a particular
application, there’s no deduction.

Tee Hee Hee. Where’s S.I. Hayakawa when we need him ? I interpret it as
meaning the car must be unaltered…if Jaguar built it with USA equipment,
the USA equipment must remain intact and unaltered. But, in a thinly veiled
attempt at providing an escape route, the rulebook also admonishes, in the
same paragraph, that “common sense be used.” Now, my own common sense may
be entirely different than the next guy’s…but, hey, I enjoy the
attention :slight_smile:

For example, I have an interesting anomaly in my '84. I have the kick
panel
pull vents. Dr. A. was astounded, and having read his dissertation,
frankly,
I am, too. These were not supposed to be in cars with A/C. There is no
sign
that they were added later. They are the factory parts installed in the
factory way as near as I can tell. Because all the US cars were shipped
with
A/C, they are extremely rare here and it is doubtful that anyone but a
Gregory-type expert would know they existed.

The question is, should it be an authenticity deduction?

No. It would not be an authenticity deduction. The vents may be be
incorrect, but, since Jaguar built the car that way, they are entirely
authentic.

Gee, this is getting sorta fun !

Cheers,
Doug
Once again trying to take this to the concours list…From: “Mark Stephenson” marks@jaguarot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Dwyer:
The rulebook says “The item must be as it was specified and intended to
leave the factory by Jaguar Cars.”

;I interpret it as
;meaning the car must be unaltered…if Jaguar built it with USA equipment,
;the USA equipment must remain intact and unaltered.

I would agree with you on that point if it was applied across the board to
all cars, even if it meant my beautiful 7" headlights generated a deduction.
The problem is that my '84 would receive the deduction for the fresh air
vents. I wouldn’t change it for the judges, but without proof, there’s no
way it would pass muster.

;But, in a thinly veiled
;attempt at providing an escape route, the rulebook also admonishes, in the
;same paragraph, that “common sense be used.” Now, my own common sense may
;be entirely different than the next guy’s…but, hey, I enjoy the
;attention :slight_smile:

Yeah, then they go and ruin it with that line.

;Gee, this is getting sorta fun !

Yeah, if you like banter and dissecting the English language, which I admit
to enjoying.

;Cheers,
;Doug
;Once again trying to take this to the concours list…

We’re talking about XJs here. I’m letting it stay right here. :slight_smile:

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson (@Mark_Stephenson2)
1952 XK120 Roadster S673129
1958 Mark 1 / 1984 XJ6 / 1985,6,7 XJ6 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (www.cableone.net/jcca)===================================================
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