Hello,
Still sorting out issues on my two year ago purchase, it’s a continuing process. 1957 OTS original Moss gear box with 43,000 miles. Shifts without grinding (unless I get lazy) but it’s a bit stiff getting out of gear when I shift up or down. Once out it shifts through neutral and into the next gear smoothly. I’ve tried 30 non-detergent, 40 non-detergent and even added some Lucas oil stabilizer (thick and stringy like way oil) no improvement with either. What would be my next step. Sure don’t want to pull the box.
Thanks,
Alan
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I switched mine to Redline MTL 15 years ago and never looked back. It was a fantastic improvement over regular 30 oil.
The shafts in the top cover may be rusty or gummy.
The top cover is easily removed, but first the seats, carpets and gearbox tunnel cover.
Agree on both points.
There are 2 sealsfor those 3 shafts at the top. Original felt which leak, or modern rubber ones from SNG which are good.
The locking nuts at the top, rear, with locking wires, can be eased to improve handling.
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Peder, where have you seen the SNG rubber ones? I’ve just checked and they don’t list an alternative to the felt ones???
I think I called in the order, for various parts, and as we talked he mentioned the rubber seals. Far better. Donr know why they dont lust them. This was about 2-3 yrs ago
Thanks Peder, I’ll give them a ring.
Alan,
be sure to choose a GL-4 Oil. In the 50s and 60s Jaguar used 30 regular oil - but a 30 oil today is not the same. If you will try a lower viscosity oil - than look for a classic Mini oil (remember: engine and gear box uses the same oil). If you check the spec you will find also the GL-4 spec.
The Moss-Box needs a little careful shifting …
Stay save
Detlev
Do you mean GF4? API **GL-4 lubricant designed for use with ‘yellow metals’ in synchronizers, thrust washers, bushings and other components typically found in classic manual transmissions and transaxles. BUT you do not want 75-90 wt…which nearly all GL 4 is in gear oil applications. There ARE 30 wt oils available now that meet the oil specs of the past while still being more heat resistant, anti sludge, but with the zinc and phosphorus of prior oils…A Multi viscosity should not be used as the viscosity improvers subject the oil to shear which is a problem in a gear box that has direct metal to metal contact. Jaguar specified single grade 30 wt. Castrol markets a “Classic XL” line of retro oils. Recommended for pre-1980 cars, their multi-grade 20W-50 is formulated with high-quality mineral oils plus selected additives for older technology and classic car engines. Also in the “Classic XL” line is a 30W oil for pre-1950 vintage and classic cars. This mono-grade oil can also be used in most types of manually-operated gearboxes.
Nick
Sure sounds like the ball/plunger assembly at the rear of the top cover is gummed-up. Shifting OUT of gear forces the ball/plunger assembly to compress, whereas shifting INTO gear allows that same spring-loaded system to extend into it’s V-shaped groove in the shift rod…a much “easier” mechanical arrangement from a frictional standpoint. But, by all means, try different oils first.
Nick, I feel we agree. I don’t want a 75-90 wt oil in the gearbox.I think we also agree, the use of engine oils in gearboxes in those days have been widely used, because the are better suited to the materials used. In those days engine oils had shear stability as well as pressure stability. Today engine oils are built for shear stability, that makes choosing the right oil some times difficult. Therefor I think you can*t go wrong with a classic Mini-Oil - and it is GL4.
Detlev
yes Detlev…we agree…is the Classic Mini oil you mention the “Millers” brand? I think so…it is recommended by Classic Mini clubs…as engine oil…and it is available in a single grade 30 wt “Millers Pistoneez 30 wt”, a moderate detergent, which is correct for the gearbox, GL4 for gearboxes and yellow metals. The multi grade version is not correct. Back to the difficult Moss shift…I think I’d drain the gear box…flush thru with same as will be run when refilled…maybe even fill-run-drain and refill and then run nice fresh correct oil at steady speed for a while…no need to do a lot of shifting…just let it get nice and warm…and see if the detergent action of the oil helped after a while. I would not use any additive or cleaner type oil as its effect on the yellow metals and EP/shear would not be known. Modern oils, even for classics , have sufficient detergent, non-sludge forumulas, Millers states moderate detergent. Valvoline Daily Protection 30 wt is non-detergent. Castrol has a single grade 30 wt HD.
Nick
Nick & Detlev—
Both of you mention that you would not want to use a 75-90 wt in the gear box. "A Multi viscosity should not be used as the viscosity improvers subject the oil to shear which is a problem in a gear box that has direct metal to metal contact. " and if I am understanding both of you correctly a single weight is what you recommend. I was thinking of trying one of the Redline synthetic oils, either MTL or MT-90. I was considering the MT-90 because I am in a hot climate and the MT-90 is equivalent to a SAE 40. BUT-these Redline products are multi-viscosity ???
Appreciate your responses,
Alan
Always good to check around…: Do not use 75-90 or MT90 or any such in the gear box: Jaguar specified 30 wt, single grade, engine oil. At the time those oils had zinc phosphorus, were not detergent, were sludge forming oils. Gear boxes have “yellow” metals and the incorrect oils will eat the metal. Multi-viscosity should not be used in the gearbox…you can study on the web how it is that oils become multi-viscosity, but multi is not for gearboxes. Certainly do not use a “gear oil” of 70-90 wt. The factory specification is 30 wt. Period. Hot or not. I would recommend non synthetic…just use what Jaguar said to use. Some but not all Modern single grade 30 weight have detergent:…some moderate, some a lot, some none. A "classic oil will have the zinc-phosphorus (zssp) which should be in the 1100 to 1200 ppm, (NOT the 2,000 ppm for dragstrip funny cars). Jaguar recommends a gear box drain and refill at 10,000 miles. Jaguar brought the record setting car at Monthelry France into the pits after two days and drained engine, gearbox and axle and refilled. (The stop was 12 minutes.) A lot of folks like the Redline, or the Royal Purple, and some like liver and onions and pigs feet. But Jaguar has told us what to use in the gearbox. I have mentioned Millers Pistoneez 30 weight moderate detergent (UK) , also Valvoline has a Daily Protection 30 wt non detergent, and Castrol HD 30 wt. there are others.
DO USE gear oil, GL4 or GL5 75-90 in the differential. Jaguar published a Service Bulletin warning NOT to add any additives or other oils to the differential, not to mix differential oil brands or types, and that any evidence of such would void guarantees.
Nick
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Alan & Nick,
I agree to Nick, if using a single grade oil, you will be on the sure side. If you check Millers recommended oils, you will get for Jaguar XK Millers Pistoneez 30 wt as gear oil - or on Castrol CLASSIC XL SAE 30.
Please no synthetic oils.
Detlev
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Where are there yellow metals in a Moss gearbox? I don’t recall having any in mine.
IIRC, there is at least one bronze thrust washer, but it’s been a while since I had mine apart.
Ok maybe there are bronze bushings inside the gear wheels, and there is the speedometer drive sleeve. In any case I can’t see SAE 30 engine oil hurting them. Non-detergent SAE 30 is also readily available as it is used in air compressors. SAE 30 is a viscosity specification incidentally, nothing to do with weight.
Follow up on my gearbox:
After trying many available oils and additives, none of which made any difference, I completely drained the box of the last snake-oil concoction and filled it up with Pistoneeze 30 SAE as suggested by this forum. Amazingly, for an original Moss box that has never been opened it is shifting much smoother.
Alan
yaaaaay ! any smoothness to a Moss gearbox is nearly a miracle. There is a certain deliberate feel to them…which I kinda have come to like as being part of how an XK feels to drive…and why I don’t let others drive it.
Nick