My '65 OTS is an early car (10083) and was delivered with double (sandwiched) ID Plates.
Sorry for the poor quality picture. It was taken in 1974 before the teardown.
As you can see, the GEARBOX lubricants row has been sheared away from the top plate, and the lubricants from the bottom plate are showing thru.
I have letters from Karen Miller, and Michael Cook (Jaguar Archives) referring to the double plates. I did some research on xkedata.com and found a few pictures of other early S1 cars with the same double plates. From the pictures, the bottom plate has the same GEARBOX lubricants as the ENGINE, SUMMER row at the top of the plate’s chart.
This GEARBOX lube line also appears on the mk2, 3.8L XKE, XK150 plates.(maybe others as well)
I recently purchased a replacement, stamped ID plate, for a 4.2L car (Late Style) from Martin Robey, along with a blank ID plate for a 3.8L (Early Style) car, hoping to replicate my original setup. However, the Old Style 3.8L plate is a smaller size (approx 3 3/4 x 5 3/4 inches) than the 4.2L plate (approx 3 3/4 x 6 1/2 inches) so the plates cannot be sandwiched and riveted in place as the originals.
I’m hoping someone will be able to identify an ID plate of the same size as the Later Style plate with the GEARBOX lube line (starting with MOBILEOIL A).
If you have an early 4.2 with an all synchro gearbox, then wouldn’t it be incorrect to nave the ID plate indicating 30 wt. oil for the gearbox? The full synchro gearbox requires SAE 90 oil.
I had never heard of this double ID plate issue but I know I did have a hard time finding a new blank plate for my 3.8. I had one specially made by a member here but that was a long time ago.
I wouldn’t bother too much about it a detail like that though. There’s a $1,000,000.00+ 3.8 OTS on offer right now and amongst other faults, it sports a 4.2 ID plate.
I’ve seen the double plate on a Jaguar but I can’t say if it was an E-type or XK but it did happen. Probably as Clive stated, last minute modification.
I can’t help with what you’re looking for, but, I have the double plate on my early '65 also and those are the details that separate the different qualities of restoration correctness! Good luck.
I’ve seen a few of these slotted data plates for the early 4.2s (which also omitted the “1E” prefix to the car serial number). It was always my undestanding that they were fashioned from two E-Type 3.8 data plates, and the factory positioned the lower plate so that the Rear Axle lubricants appeared through the slot, for the same reason you indicated - namely the all synchro box (unlike the Moss) did not require engine oil, but a Hypoid 90 oil - the same as the rear axle. One example of this can be found in the “Other” photos section of FHC 30108: XKE Data - Gallery Detail - Jaguar E-Type (XKE) information, articles, photos and register.
However, thanks to this thread, I’ve seen more examples where the exposed lubricants seem to be from the Gearbox line of underlying 3.8 data plate. Very strange. Some of these examples appear to be original plates. Were these just errors by the factory as a result of the two data plates simply being aligned directly on top of each other, with the person installing them not understanding the intent?
Apparently registered in CA when new as it has the J/65 tag.
I am still uncertain about when this CA DMV requirement started, but at least from 1961 onwards imported cars had it in CA. Ferraris and Maseratis sold new in CA have a similar F-61 tag etc.
Also it always creates friction with the whole model year thing as Jaguar and pretty much all European officials would call the car a 1964 4.2 FHC as it was made in 1964.
Over here the year on a title will always be based on 1st registration date, and if it unknown you can use the date of mfg if there is a certificate from the maker to confirm it.
My ex #1E76372 BW had a North Carolina title as a 1967. But the German Fzgbrief and Finnish title had 1966 as it was made on July 14th 1966 and 1st registered (in Glen Burnie, MD) in September 1966.
I have also read about these early 4.2’s double plates and the prefix that was added to all cars later, perhaps when Jaguar realised they had so many models that there could have been lots of confusion.
So the E-type got the 1E prefix.
Here is a letter I received from Michael Cook, responding to my inquiry regarding my ID no and double ID plates, with a definitive answer as to why there is no “1E” prefix on 320 cars.
I also have a letter from Karen Miller, Jaguar Cars Inc. Archives referencing the double ID plates, but she does not state exactly what the bottom plate is.
Hopefully, someone out there can solve that puzzle for me.
Just to add to your puzzle, I can’t find a “Colton Hill” or even a “Colton Avenue” anywhere in New Jersey.
I would guess that should have been “Knowlton.”
Good observation Mike. I got a story about that.
I too did an extensive search for Colton Hill, New Jersey and came up empty. The letter I have from Karen Miller (Jaguar Archives) addresses the delivery destination issue and the double plates:
Then, one day, as I was on my way to a Jaguar shop in East Rutherford, NJ, I passed a street named “Carlton Avenue”. Coincidentally, I also passed the Rutherford town hall on my way to the shop. I decided to stop in to the town hall, and ask if that section of town was ever called Colton Hill. The clerk told me he did not know, but unbelievably, the retired tax assessor from the '60s, happen to be visiting that day. He remembered R.K. Rentals !!! (R.K. must have been paying a lot of taxes back then). Anyway, the assessor was able to give me some contact information and I sent a letter to follow up.
I did get a response from the original owner’s son:
Unfortunately, I was unable to contact the mechanic named in the letter.
That’s incredible news (and great luck) that you were able to learn some more history of your car. Where are you located, that you take your car to Motorcraft?
I’m in Clifton, since 1988. I was a member of the Jaguar Touring Club and would stop in, from time to time, to see Joe, Paul and Brian. Joe has passed, Paul has his shop in Caldwell and Brian is still in Rutherford. I assume you are from the area. Do you go to “Cats in the Garden” on Father’s days?
Yes, I was there most recently with my black-over-silver MK IX, which Paul liked well enough to give it the Chairman Award. I was at Joe’s funeral, I fix clocks for Bryan’s customers and I bought my MK2 body from Paul. Small world!