E-Type "Adventure"

Went for a drive in our '64 E-Type OTS on Weds, July 3rd, along with my wife, and my friend Jeff and his GF Julie. We drove up the coast from San Francisco, on Hwy 1, ending up, around 4PM, at Chimney Rock, which is just South of Point Reyes Lighthouse. That’s where the trouble started…

Just as we were pulling into the parking lot, my engine suddenly started running on 4 cylinders! Cylinders 1 & 6 had no spark whatsoever (obviously, my car has EDIS). I tinkered with things, which accomplished nothing. Clearly, either the coilpack or EDIS module had died, after 15 years of flawless service. We were, literally, in the middle of nowhere. NO cell service, and the nearest auto parts store was in Petaluma, 45 miles away. And 45 miles of mostly windy, bumpy, low-speed two-lane roads. We thought “Maybe we can make it on four cylinders…”. Well, before even getting out of the parking lot, two more cylinders went missing. I can tell you right now, an E-Type with a two-cylinder engine does NOT make for a rewarding driving experience!

So, Jeff and I left the women with the car, and got into his car and drove to Petaluma, hoping to get both a coilpack and EDIS modules. NOBODY had the EDIS module in stock, and this being July 3rd, NOBODY could get one before Friday, the 5th. So we bought a coilpack, and crossed our fingers.

After 3 hours, we made it back to the parking lot, and installed the coilpack. To no avail. So, clearly the EDIS module had crapped out. Now we had a real problem. My wife and I left Jeff and Julie with the car, and took Jeffs car, to search for a cell signal, so we could call a tow truck. On the way, it occurred to us that there WERE a few “Historic Ranches” along the way, that were working ranches, some of which had actual people living there. We pulled into the first one that looked in inhabited, and knocked on the door. A very nice fellow named Jared answered. We explained the situation, and he invited us in to use his land-line phone. To make a VERY long story short, after 3-1/2 hours(!) on the phone to both my wifes “roadside assistance” provider and our insurance company, we were told by both “we can’t help you”! Neither could find ANYONE who could send a tow truck. Jared then said “My wife might know someone”. He called his wife, then called her friend, and in 10 minutes, we had a tow truck on the way!

Back to the parking lot, and out dead car, and Jeff and Julie. It was now about 11:45PM, frickin’ COLD and windy. We assured them all was in-hand, and sent them on their way back home to San Mateo. We waited. The tow truck showed up a little after midnight. The driver was great - he loaded the car, safe and sound in RECORD time. Less than 10 minutes after he arrived, we were on our way to Petaluma. When we finally got cell service on the outskirts of Petaluma, I used my phone to make a reservation at Motel 6, and the tow truck dropped us, and the car off, getting the car off the truck in under 5 minutes! It was now 1:45AM.

After a somewhat sleepness night, we got up at 6AM, walked two blocks to IHOP for breakfast, with LOTS of coffee. We returned to the motel, explained to the desk clerk about the dead car, and asked if we could leave it there for, perhaps, 2-3 days until we could get the new module. They were ok with that. We then called an Uber to drive us North. up to Santa Rosa airport, to pick up a rental car (a lovely, brand-new Hyundai Kona). We drove the rental car down to Concord, to spend the 4th with our son, his GF, an her family. While in Concord, we call the auto parts store near our home, and ordered the new module, which they would have Friday PM.

On Friday afternoon, we picked up the part, drove back up to Petaluma, and installed it. The engine fired up up instantly, and idle perfectly. We drove two blocks to a has station, filled up both cars, then headed North to Santa Rosa to return the rental. But, uh-oh! The engine ran perfectly… Up to 2000 RPM, at which point it started missing and bucking like a bronco! Clearly, the new module is DEFECTIVE! And there isn’t another one to be had ANYWHERE in the area. For lack of anything else to try, we drove surface streets to the nearest parts store, and bought new spark plugs, and wires, but they too made no difference.

Jeez! Give me a break! So, since we were limited to ~43 MPH, we decided to drive surface streets to my sons house on Concord, which would take ~2 hours. We arrived there about 11:30PM last night. Left the car in his driveway, and drove back home. As soon as the parts store opened, I ordered ANOTHER EDIS module, which will be here this afternoon. We will then drive back up to Concord, about two hours, and install that, and, God willing, finally drive the Jag home.

I can’t feel TOO bad about the car dying, given that in 21 years, and almost 50K miles, we’ve driven that car all over the state, and this is the FIRST time, it has failed to make it home.

And, along the way, we met a few really nice people. When we were sorting out the original problem, there was a fellow in the Chimney Rock parking lot in a small motor home. He thought I looked cold, and insisted on giving me a jacket to wear. While my wife and I were off making phone calls, and Jeff and Julie were waiting in my car, this guy was talking to them, and even made them hot coffee. He refused to leave until our car was loaded onto the tow truck! We’re all going to get together and by him dinner one of these days. And, of course, Jared let us hang out in his house, use his phone, and play with his adorable 3 year-old son for 3-1/2 hours. Most importantly, he is the one who found us a tow truck, when the people we PAID to do that for us failed us!

Keeping my fingers crossed the new module gets us going again later today…

Regards,
Ray L.

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But, on the plus side… Some of you recall my “Accurizer”, which was a little electronic module I built back in about '02, that has a microprocessor in it, and connects BETWEEN the sending units (tach, temp, oil, fuel) and gauges, and corrects and “accurizes” both the senders and gauges, to make for more reliable, accurate gauge readings. This first version started using the stock sending units, but after the oil pressure sender failed many years ago, I replaced it with a VDO sender, which, while cheaper ($50), was not greatly more reliable. Having the second VDO sender AND the temp sender both die last fall was my motivation to take the next step.

After 17 years of yeoman service, I decided it was time to retire the original prototype, to be replaced with a more modern version. First step was ditching the stock temp and oil senders in favor of modern, solid state parts which are MUCH cheaper, MUCH more accurate, and MUCH more reliable. Only the fuel sender is left stock, and it actually works remarkably well. A few days ago I installed those, ripped out the old Accurizer, and put in a makeshift replacement, retaining (temporarily) only the stock gauges, but with an added LCD display with digital readouts for RPM, temp, OP and fuel as a backup. This trip was the first outing for this new "development system, and it worked perfectly!

Next step, which is coming soon, is to replace the “guts” of all the gauges, potentially even including the speedo, with modern stepper-motor movements, as used in all modern cars for the last decade or more. In fact, I am using the exact same stepper motors that have been used in ALL GM products for more than a decade. This will make the instruments every bit as accurate and reliable as on any modern car, with sensors accurate to 0.5C/0.5PSI, and movements capable of locating the needle angle to within 1/2 degree of rotation. The new “guts” will be a drop-in replacement for the stock bi-metal elements, with integrated electronics, built-in RGB LED lighting (with selectable color and intensity), and only a single 4-wire harness coming out to control everything.

Of course, if this new EDIS module does not get it running right, I’ll probably just drive it (at under 43MPH, of course…) to the nearest cliff and push it off…

Regards,
Ray L.

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Ray you are an inspiration to us all and your standing in the forum is legendary. So your story/recent experience is doubly interesting.
as the saying goes… ‘misery craves company’ i fitted complete engine management with fuel injection to my series 1 3.8 a few years ago. it was brilliant and i used the car for trips to lemans and other stuff across europe. THEN one day it refused to start. in my case the ecu wasn’t recognising the Crank shaft position sensor. Then without waring it started and all was well. on returning home i replaced the sensor and all was well for a while. then again same issue. changing the sensor didn’t resolve the intermittent fault. at that point (with the red mist fully clouding my judgement) i decided to return to the original carbs and distributor set up the rational being easy spares to carry easy to diagnose problems etc etc. and in my case carbs look better than the injection bodies.
i admit it was dramatic overkill to replace it all but my classic drive needs to be simple.

looking forward to hearing the final instalment.
best regards
phil D

Send the car to me, there’s a nearby cliff.

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Note to self. Whatever modern ignition system I have installed on the car (Lumenition, 123, WHY), always always always, carry the original points and condenser unit in the car somewhere. Even in its box it doesn’t take up too much room.

Sounds like it could be the EDIS crank sensor which is either dirty, damaged or has faulty wiring. What you are describing are classic symptoms of that. If the sensor moves out of alignment the toothed wheel will eat into the sensor.

Two EDIS module failures sounds unlikely. Obviously the best way to diagnose it is with a PC into the Megajolt but that throws up other problems such as having the USB/serial converter available.

Good luck and I will watch with interest as EDIS/Megajolt is still being home brew installed by some of the UK Forum folks.

Regards

David

Ray did you get the gauges you need for the accurizer project?
pauls

Paul,

Yes, I did. Thanks!

Regards,
Ray L.

David,

I don’t see how a crank sensor can cause two completely different sets of symptoms. With the old module, it went, within just a few minutes, from a 6-cylinder, to a 4-cylinder, to a 2-cylinder. When it was running with 4 cylinders, 2-5 all had a strong, stable spark, 1 & 6 had no spark whatsoever. Then 2 & 5 dropped out, leaving 3 & 4 with a perfect spark, the other four with no spark whatsoever. It would idle ok-ish on just the two cylinders - no misses or backfires, just no power. Doing nothing but swapping in the new module, it started instantly, and runs PERFECTLY, but only up to 2000 RPM, then starts missing like crazy. I can’t fathom how a bad crank sensor could cause those two completely different sets of symptoms. The EDIS is timed to the missing tooth, which is 5 teeth AHEAD of cylinders 1/6 TDC. If the sensor is messed up, it would likely still find the missing tooth, but lose timing sometime after that. So I would expect cylinders 1&6 to be the LAST to lose proper spark timing, not the first. And there was no backfiring, as would be expected if timing was incorrect - there was simply no spark at all. I just can’t see how it could be able to time 2-5, and NOT 1 & 6.

That said, the sensor is a cheap part, so I will get one to take along. And, of course, I’ll let you know what happens.

Regards,
Ray L.

Ray, sorry for your mishaps. You may recall that my first edis module had suffered during transport and given me hardtime starting then shutting down randomly… once replaced engine ran flawlessly.
Now few years later, on my 2 cars with edis fitted, I carry a spare kit in each composed of coilpack+edis+pickup sensor, cheap insurance.

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Hi Ray

My maxim is garbage in = garbage out. You need to go to the head of the chain rather than jump into the middle. If your sensor retaining bracket moved even slightly the ‘raptor’ tooth wheel will trash it. If it is mobile then the results will change depending on temperature, angle and inclination of the car.

Just a suggestion, not a criticism - just thinking out of the box.

David

Me too. I love the Pertronix I have put on my cars but often simple, tried and true can be as good. One of the reasons I picked Pertronix is that in many ways is even more simple than points. I bet right now Boeing and their customers are regretting the “upgraded” fight control system on the 737MAX over the “old” tried and true system that seems to work just fine on the 737-700 for decades now.

David
68 E-type FHC

I’m closer…
Cheers,
LLynn

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Sounded like an adventure Ray, and if you were a member of the Idaho British Car Club you would be ‘entitled’ to the “Traveling Trophy of Woe”. This is a beautiful trophy with more than one Jaguar piece welded to it that no one wants! :wink:

Now I have to decide if I want to pack an extra Module, coil pack and sensor or just pack the oem distributor, cap, coil and wires…
Glad you made it home safely.
Cheers,
LLynn

Ray, regarding your other problem with towing, I found you could call the cops (911), and they will find you a towing service pretty quickly. I had to do this once when my towing service (Allstate) failed to show after waiting for about 4 hours. A letter to your service provider explaining the situation will probably get you a reimbursement since they couldn’t handle the job.
Tim
'67 OTS

If only you had had one of those superior points and condenser ignitions…:yum:

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Ray, did your first edis module suffer any water splash, that caused it to die after erratic symptoms, and corrosion developed in the connecting plug?

Yesterday, we picked up the second new EDIS module, a genuine Ford Motorcraft part from AutoZone, and made our third trip up North in four days. Once installed, the engine started instantly, and runs perfectly once again. In fact, it even seems to idle a bit smoother that it did before the failure! It got back home about midnight with no drama whatsoever. So, the first replacement module is definitely defective, and the old pickup is just fine. I did pickup a spare pickup, since they’re cheap, and will get a used Ford module to carry as a spare, along with the new coilpack. Having those spares in the boot should ensure none of those parts ever fail again! :slight_smile:

I tend to think the difficulty in getting hands on replacement modules has to be an indication of how rare this type of failure is. The first one I bought turned out to be only one of two O-Reilly auto parts, a major chain store, had anywhere in the state of California, the other being down in LA. Were these things failing at any significant rate, they would be in-stock everywhere, as the coilpacks are.

I am VERY glad this little adventure has finally come to an end. Between towing, hotel, rental car, parts, and three trips up North, we’re currently out of pocket well over $1000 for this whole fiasco. Still, it’s the only time in 21 years and almost 50K miles the car has failed to make it home, so it’s hard to feel too bad about it.

Regards,
Ray L.

2 Likes

Glad you got it sorted Ray. As you say, EDIS module failures are very rare so odd that two took a turn for the worse. Were they genuine Ford units?

David

David,

The one that failed was my original MotorCraft part, bought used, and in my car since '05. The second was after-market, made by Standard Motor Products, one of the largest US providers of after-market electrical automotive products. The last one is a brand-new MotorCraft part, and, surprisingly, was $30 cheaper than the Standard part.

Regards,
Ray L.