[E-Type] Alternator Blues

Last Sunday my friend Tommo went on a tour of Northern
California with a gaggle of Lotuses. On the way home
Shaggy–That’s his 68 1/2 OTS, not his girlfriend–began to
make strange noises.

Tommo has shared his follow-up investigation with his Jaguar
friends who have concluded that the combined three-digit IQ
of this Forum could cast light on what happened and upon
what he should do, other than avoid socializing with
Lotuses. Here is his edited account of the situation:–
Randall Carlson '70 FHC, '71 MGB roadster, '97 Ply Voyager
Fairfield, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Rancarl sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Have we just been insulted? I know for a fact that between
LLoyd and I we have a combined IQ of at least 90, but then
again I’m no 'rithmatition…
Cheers,
Lynn :slight_smile:
PS: where is the edited account?–
The original message included these comments:

Tommo has shared his follow-up investigation with his Jaguar
friends who have concluded that the combined three-digit IQ
of this Forum could cast light on what happened and upon
what he should do, other than avoid socializing with
Lotuses. Here is his edited account of the situation:


Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from L.Lynn sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Oh, nuts! I pasted a couple of Word paragraphs into this
space, and it did not show up. I was going to claim one of
the group’s IQ points, but I withdraw my application. Let’s
try this:–
The original message included these comments:

PS: where is the edited account?


Randall Carlson '70 FHC, '71 MGB roadster, '97 Ply Voyager
Fairfield, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Rancarl sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Nuts x 2k!

I keyboarded the message that time. I think that it’s the
double arrows I inserted at the beginning and end. Peter,
what am I doing wrong?

One more attempt:

Start. Thirty-five miles from home we heard a terrible
rattle, and then a big ‘clank,’ and then the noise changed
to a collapsed bearing sound, and the charge light came on
and the ammeter dropped to no charge!! We kept going and got
Shaggy home.

I was trying to convince myself that it was not the
alternator bearings AGAIN [Replaced last June]! Anyway, it
sure was the alternator making the noise. The noise got
progressively worse, and I had visions of another fuel
saving trip home, on the back of a tow truck!! We were
fortunate enough to make the 40 mi home on the battery.

Found the problem… Round slotted nut holding the
alternator together came loose and eventually parted ways.
Looks like the alternator could still be fine. The whole
housing was also parting ways.

Finding it had lost a bolt and the round slotted nut holding
it all together, and the other 2 nuts loose, I made a new
nut and bolt and put it together and reinstalled it.
Connected the battery and turned the key to ‘on’, heard the
radiator fans turn on, and then fired her up. She started up
and after a couple of seconds, she shut off!!

I turned the key off, then back on and noticed the fans
would not start. I then checked fuse 6 and seemed OK, but
the left contact looked burnt and melted. I put a new fuse
in and the fans still do not start up. The hooter [horn?]
does work, which also goes through fuse 6, so I doubt it�s
fuse related. Maybe another bug not related to what I did!!

Reading the wiring diagrams has confused me even more. I’m
really at a loss as to why the fans do not run. all I did
was remove the alternator and put it back! I have since
pulled the alternator out again and opened it up for another
look. I notice the the rear shaft of the rotor is badly worn
since the rebuild I did last June!!

I now see scratch marks on the rotor and stator. My question
is, if the rotor assembly touches the stator assembly will
this cause a problem? End.

Everything looks good as I prepare to hit the ‘‘post reply’’
button. If you cannot see the message above please send me a
self-addressed postcard.–
The original message included these comments:

PS: where is the edited account?


Randall Carlson '70 FHC, '71 MGB roadster, '97 Ply Voyager
Fairfield, California, United States
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Lynn, you mean you have a 75!!! WOW!!!
LLoy…, ummmm, Joe

Insofar as mathematics applies to
reality it is not certain and
so far as mathematics is certain
it does not apply to reality.
Einstein----- Original Message -----
From: “L.Lynn” lgardner@ctcweb.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:01:28 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Alternator Blues

Have we just been insulted? I know for a fact that between
LLoyd and I we have a combined IQ of at least 90, but then
again I’m no 'rithmatition…
Cheers,
Lynn :slight_smile:


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In reply to a message from Rancarl sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Randall,

The good news - we have the story at last! The bad news - I
think that there is something we’re not being told. Why
would he expect the fans to come on, with a cold engine? Am
I missing something - e.g. A/C turned on? If not, I presume
that this means that the otter switch has been bypassed or
something. If so, I think we need to know what mods have
been made from stock, before we put our combined IQ to work
:-). From your comment about a burnt/melted fuse contact,
I’m thinking that something is seriously fried…

-David–
davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS , '98 XK8
Monterey CA, United States
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FWIW, I seriously fried the alternator wiring harness in my S1 when the brush holder melted away and the system apparently shorted big time—big bang–fire and a fried wiring harness.---- davidxk dxlangley@sbcglobal.net wrote:

=============
In reply to a message from Rancarl sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Randall,

The good news - we have the story at last! The bad news - I
think that there is something we’re not being told. Why
would he expect the fans to come on, with a cold engine? Am
I missing something - e.g. A/C turned on? If not, I presume
that this means that the otter switch has been bypassed or
something. If so, I think we need to know what mods have
been made from stock, before we put our combined IQ to work
:-). From your comment about a burnt/melted fuse contact,
I’m thinking that something is seriously fried…

-David

davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS , '98 XK8
Monterey CA, United States
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In reply to a message from davidxk sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Thanks to Randy for starting this post for me, a little difficult
at work and I really wanted this posted as soon as possible.

When I purchased the car the fans never came on, and I noticed one
lead to the otter switch was disconnected. I reconnected it and
ever since then the fans ran constantly. I knew this was not normal
but I left it like that as I knew the fans were running and the car
would not over heat here in the Sacramento valley!! I felt it was
better working permanently, rather than me not knowing they were
working when hot! There is no A/C in this car, and it is origanal,
one owner car. All I can tell it was resprayed some time back, but
other than that it has not been butchered, and no mods. As fo rthe
fuse holder looking melted I cant say for sure if this happened
recently or in the past. I have never had to open up the fuse
compartment until yesterday.
Thanks
Tom…–
thewhitezulu
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When I purchased the car the fans never came on, and I noticed one
lead to the otter switch was disconnected. I reconnected it and
ever since then the fans ran constantly.

Tom, sounds like you have a shorted Otter switch. Buy a new one, and
gasket. Takes about 5 mins to replace…the only pain is having to
lean over the carbs and suspension to do it! Inexpensive fix.On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 9:19 PM, thewhitezulu thewhitezulu2000@yahoo.com wrote:


Les…'68 S1.5 2+2


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In reply to a message from thewhitezulu sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

You’ve got a great bunch of Jag guys right there in your area
I’m sure would be happy to help you sort this out - David
Shield, Tom Pope, Randy Carlson, Kevin Kemper, Ken Tucker -
all in and around El Dorado Hills.–
The original message included these comments:

ever since then the fans ran constantly. I knew this was not normal
but I left it like that as I knew the fans were running and the car
would not over heat here in the Sacramento valley!! I felt it was


Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from thewhitezulu sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Tom,

It isn’t clear to me what is no longer working. Is it just
the fans that don’t run? The original description says the
car fired up and then died. Does the engine still crank? If
so, does it start? I guess what I’m asking, is what ‘‘died’’
when it ran for that short period. We know the fans died,
but the horn works. Do you have any more data? I’m not
familiar with the wiring of the Series 1.5s. There is a
wiring diagram in the Service Manual for later Series 1’s
which includes an alternator, dual fans, push starter and an
ammeter, so it may be appropriate, but I’m not sure.

-David–
davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS , '98 XK8
Monterey CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Thanks for complementing these great friends I was fortunate enough
to meet up with. They are being helpful but just thought I would
throw this out there. Talking to a friend, who does not have a Jag,
mentioned something about a balast resistor causing it to sut down
after starting! He had this problem on a 78 Dodge. I am not sure if
the Jag has a balast resistor that could cause this. Also, a low
battery, although I metered it an dit had 12.3 V after driving 30
miles with a non working alternator. I have the battery on charge
now, but my decision is to install an AC delco one wire or
equivalent, this will eliminate the regulator and relay!! Which I
may have cooked. Tom…–
thewhitezulu
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In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Mon 22 Apr 2013:

Thanks Les, I will do that. I did purchase a new AC Delco one wire
alternator yesterday so I will install that soon. Hopefully this
will eliminate all my problems. Tom…–
The original message included these comments:

Tom, sounds like you have a shorted Otter switch. Buy a new one, and
gasket. Takes about 5 mins to replace…the only pain is having to
lean over the carbs and suspension to do it! Inexpensive fix.


thewhitezulu
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from thewhitezulu sent Wed 24 Apr 2013:

I now have ‘Shaggy’ running again and thought I would give an
update should any one else have similar problems. I did install the
AC Delco 10SI and only connected a lead straight from the battery
to the + terminal on the alternator. I spoke to Dan Kelly, a
British car service shop here in Sacaramento and he recommended not
connecting any of the other 2 leads to the spade connectors on the
alternator like many hits have siad to connect it. There were many
hits I found that said dont connect them!! It is charging at 14.6 V.
As for the fans not switching on when the key was turned on
happened to be a coincidence that one of the wires off the Otter
switch had fallen off!! That just threw a spanner in the works and
had me going off track for a while! I have bypassed the Otter
switch, as I like to know the fans are working, especially here in
the Sacramento valley. Obviously the switch is bad anyway as the
fans ran as soon as I turned the key on!–
thewhitezulu
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In reply to a message from thewhitezulu sent Sat 4 May 2013:

I’m really glad to hear that you have it fixed but I can’t
understand why you wouldn’t want to have the other two wires
hooked up. IIRC one is a ‘down stream sensing’ wire and the
other is for the alternator light. I can see if you don’t
need the alternator light but the other wire just makes sure
the alternator is delivering the correct voltage. JM2CW.
Cheers,
Lynn–
The original message included these comments:

I now have ‘Shaggy’ running again and thought I would give an
update should any one else have similar problems. I did install the
AC Delco 10SI and only connected a lead straight from the battery
to the + terminal on the alternator. I spoke to Dan Kelly, a
British car service shop here in Sacaramento and he recommended not
connecting any of the other 2 leads to the spade connectors on the
alternator like many hits have siad to connect it. There were many
hits I found that said dont connect them!! It is charging at 14.6 V.


Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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