In reply to a message from gnorton sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
Wow, that was the most fun we’ve had on the forum for ages.
Thanks for the great original post Garth–
Tom Morris '62 E-type FHC (885688)
Sechelt, British Columbia, Canada
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In reply to a message from Bloggins sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
Let’s not stop this yet! You guys are fun when everyone
gets opinionated. I think I heard somewhere that K-N makes
some good outboard brake kits now. 
(Just kidding).–
The original message included these comments:
Wow, that was the most fun we’ve had on the forum for ages.
Thanks for the great original post Garth
–
Michael Slos 69 E-type OTS
Scottsbluff Nebraska, United States
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No reason to argue a case. I’ve made a couple of mods to my car and
I’ll make more if they suit me However, a mod is nearly ALWAYS a
compromise of some kind even if it only removes originality. Show me
a mod that improves the car and makes no compromise whatsoever and I’m
on it… if I can afford it.
pauls 67ots
…Call it whatever denigrating term you like, but you will never win
the ‘‘don’t modify’’ argument with me…
<<<<<<<<<<<
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Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.phpFrom: “Dagenham” beneyes@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Brake conversion
Years ago I was at a Triumph Club meeting when Ed Iskendarian came in. He was there by mistake as he was supposed to be at another club’s meeting the next night. Nonetheless, we commandeered Ed (“Isky”) and discussed camshaft design until pretty late in the evening. One question I remeber is a classic:
Club Member: I have a 1970 TR6. What is the best all around camshaft for smooth idle, fast starting, top acceleration, good high end, and maximum economy?
Isky: The one that came in the car from the factory.
Mike Moore
— jagdood@gmail.com wrote:From: “paul spurlock” jagdood@gmail.com
To: jaguar e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [E-Type] Brake conversion
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:09:48 -0400
No reason to argue a case. I’ve made a couple of mods to my car and
I’ll make more if they suit me However, a mod is nearly ALWAYS a
compromise of some kind even if it only removes originality. Show me
a mod that improves the car and makes no compromise whatsoever and I’m
on it… if I can afford it.
pauls 67ots
From: “Dagenham” beneyes@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Brake conversion
…Call it whatever denigrating term you like, but you will never win
the ‘‘don’t modify’’ argument with me…
<<<<<<<<<<<
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Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
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In reply to a message from gnorton sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
Didn’t the XJS in the later years have outboard brakes with
substantially the same IRS? (I’m sure that Jaguar completely re-
engineered the IRS while they were at it…)–
David - '61 & '69 OTS, '37 SS Saloon El Dorado Hills, CA
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In reply to a message from David Shield sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
I’m completely with Mike on this. I certainly don’t suggest that
anybody limit themselves on modifications they want to make. It’s
your car, E Types are not rare, re-engineering can be fun. And
there’s a small chance the car will be improved overall.
The reason I always respond to emails like this is that new people
trying to learn about the cars read them, and if they see them as I
do, hear ‘‘The car sucks here, but I can make it good’’. I want to
make sure that the car itself is understood for what it is. It’s a
tremendous, historic car, a real step forward in automotive
engineering, and a beauty. It’s very competitive with modern cars
in many ways, better in some (worse in others) But it’s not a
Blower Bentley or a Healey ; -) Nothing is ‘‘needed’’ to ‘‘fix’’ it.
True, it’s not a modern car, and you’d have to widen the track a
lot and put on 345/40-18 tires to match them in some ways – and a
very powerful air conditioner.
Anyone who wants to put a Ford V8 in the car, or mess around with
the IRS, be my guest. But IMHO, you won’t have an E Type any more,
but an E-Type based…lump. Lump is just the Jaguar slang for a
car where the excellent XK engine or V12 is replaced by a mediocre
(for the application) Ford V8. Hacking the IRS in the way
indicated is just as bad, in my view. It’s making a sow’s ear out
of a silk purse. But when you replace your XK with a V8, I’ll
continue to have my opinion about that, and you should completely
ignore it.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
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AWOL??? Now everyone knows—watch out for the MP’s.
[Original Message]
From: mmoore8425@netscape.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: 6/14/2007 5:02:03 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Brake conversionI agree Dave.
Mike Moore
USN AWOL
59 TR3A
63 OTS
64 OTS
62 C300H Chrysler— davchr@yahoo.com wrote:
From: “davchr” davchr@yahoo.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Brake conversion
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:50:10 +0200In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
I run engineering groups. If an engineer in one of my groups
wanted to change a tried and proven ‘‘safety-critical design’’
without a good reason, and ADEQUATE TESTING to prove out the
change, I would probably smack him across the back of the head.As Ray pointed out above, members that were not designed for
the braking loads would be stressed differently. Without
careful design, the braking balance between front and rear
will be changed, causing one or the other to lock up too
soon. For safety reasons, I would not mess with the design
of either the front or rear brakes on any of my cars. I
know people that spent thousands of dollars on their old
Tbirds replacing the drum brakes with modern disk brakes.
They often stop worse with the ‘‘upgrade’’, because there was
no real engineering in the change.Knock yourself out with any change you want to make on your
car. Be aware that it will be a PITA to sort out and make
work close to right. I have two degrees in mechanical
engineering, access to the best FEA programs for the stress
analysis, and the ability to calculate the brake loading to
ensure proper balance. To do this right and not screw up
the ‘‘safety-critical design’’ requires a LOT more work than
simply taking the brakes off a junk vette and finding a way
to cobble them onto a Jag IRS.With the stock brake system, when you have problems you can
get help on this forum instead of the lump forum.Dave Christensen
MSME
65 Etype OTS
69 Etype OTS
57 Tbird–
The original message included these comments:you as a design engineer, that if I proposed a safety-critical
design with such logistical issues, I’d be smacked across the back
of the head and get told to ‘‘hit the try-harder button’’. For–
davchr
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
Go Dagenham!
I thought the best reason to change to XJS outboard brakes
was to avoid melting the diff seals = oil on the discs =no
brakes.
It would also be a great opportunity to add an additional
modification the ‘richert’ type anti bump-steer part
?http://tinyurl.com/26to32
http://tinyurl.com/26meca
http://tinyurl.com/29pzeu
http://tinyurl.com/2tf2zg--
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots,89 RX-7 conv,97 Miata
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In reply to a message from sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
That’s great, I can fully appreciate that…but I think the
originality-fans around here need to see the other side also. I
mean, jeez, I don’t come over to your house and knock the Lucas
distributor out of your hand, do I?! 
As for the person who mentioned the 400 hp go-kart in response to
my Cortina…I think you’re missing the point. My Cortina is not a
fire-breathing monster; it’s a car your wife/mother could drive to
the mall, and not realize is capable (SAFELY) of ridiculous
speeds. Sure, there are other cars that would ‘‘blow it away’’, but
I can’t afford those, so I make do with what I can afford, and
modify to suit my wants and desires.
For the mods I would do to an E-type…sure, they would be a
compromise, but not a drastic swing to the other side of the
spectrum as some seem to suggest. So while I don’t want to put on
a tweed cap and ‘‘experience the sheer driving pleasure’’, I also
don’t want a coughing, spitting pig.
Watch these video clips, and see what a bit of (intelligent)
modification can do to a 60’s performance car…a standard E-type,
an Eagle-modified E-type, and a standard DB5.
Watch how the performance of both standard cars is totally mundane
by today’s standards, and how the (carefully) modified E-type can
post some pretty impressive numbers. If you don’t have time to
watch both, at least watch the second one.
http://tinyurl.com/2gunud--
The original message included these comments:
That’s just fine, you’ll get no quarrels from me on what you do to your car. New list members also need to know there is a world who think stock is great also, and it isn’t necessary to modify an otherwise fine automobile.
Best, Mike Moore
–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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Dagenham wrote: “For the mods I would do to an E-type…sure, they would
be a
compromise, but not a drastic swing to the other side of the
spectrum as some seem to suggest. So while I don’t want to put on
a tweed cap and ‘‘experience the sheer driving pleasure’’, I also
don’t want a coughing, spitting pig.”
I never really looked at my original E as one of those. Mine hasn’t coughed
or spit in 17 years. It’s not an either/or thing here. But alas, do what
you want to yours. It is your car.
Cheers
tom
[Original Message]
From: Dagenham beneyes@yahoo.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: 6/15/2007 1:03:31 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Brake conversionIn reply to a message from sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
That’s great, I can fully appreciate that…but I think the
originality-fans around here need to see the other side also. I
mean, jeez, I don’t come over to your house and knock the Lucas
distributor out of your hand, do I?!As for the person who mentioned the 400 hp go-kart in response to
my Cortina…I think you’re missing the point. My Cortina is not a
fire-breathing monster; it’s a car your wife/mother could drive to
the mall, and not realize is capable (SAFELY) of ridiculous
speeds. Sure, there are other cars that would ‘‘blow it away’’, but
I can’t afford those, so I make do with what I can afford, and
modify to suit my wants and desires.For the mods I would do to an E-type…sure, they would be a
compromise, but not a drastic swing to the other side of the
spectrum as some seem to suggest. So while I don’t want to put on
a tweed cap and ‘‘experience the sheer driving pleasure’’, I also
don’t want a coughing, spitting pig.Watch these video clips, and see what a bit of (intelligent)
modification can do to a 60’s performance car…a standard E-type,
an Eagle-modified E-type, and a standard DB5.Watch how the performance of both standard cars is totally mundane
by today’s standards, and how the (carefully) modified E-type can
post some pretty impressive numbers. If you don’t have time to
watch both, at least watch the second one.–
The original message included these comments:That’s just fine, you’ll get no quarrels from me on what you do to your
car. New list members also need to know there is a world who think stock is
great also, and it isn’t necessary to modify an otherwise fine automobile.
Best, Mike Moore–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
I was referring to heavily modified cars that are not suitable for
street-driving.–
The original message included these comments:
I never really looked at my original E as one of those. Mine hasn’t coughed
or spit in 17 years. It’s not an either/or thing here. But alas, do what
you want to yours. It is your car.
–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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Sorry—misread your post. No harm intended.
Tom
[Original Message]
From: Dagenham beneyes@yahoo.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: 6/15/2007 1:32:45 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Brake conversionIn reply to a message from Tom Felts sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
I was referring to heavily modified cars that are not suitable for
street-driving.The original message included these comments:
I never really looked at my original E as one of those. Mine hasn’t
coughed
or spit in 17 years. It’s not an either/or thing here. But alas, do
what
you want to yours. It is your car.–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from polestar sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
Slos…
Scottsbluff’s not that far to drive to, buddy!..;)))–
The original message included these comments:
Let’s not stop this yet! You guys are fun when everyone
gets opinionated. I think I heard somewhere that K-N makes
some good outboard brake kits now.
–
Paul Wigton, '60 DKW 1000SP, '57 Chrysler Imperial, Tweety!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
Had (made) one of those: Datsun 1200, bored to a 1500, dual
DellO’rtos, tube exhausts, wedge-ground crank, Freddy rods,
8 pound flywheel, 305 degree duration Webb cam, 13:1
Cosworth pistons, gutted to 1450 pounds.
T’would EASILY top 9800 RPM, embarrassed its share of
'Vettes. I had to run it on (then not all that cheap)
110-purple avgas, got around 15 MPG, went like STINK! Got
tired of that on the street and built a nearly stock one for
daily use…
AAAAAAhhhh…;)–
The original message included these comments:
I was referring to heavily modified cars that are not suitable for
street-driving.
–
Paul Wigton, '60 DKW 1000SP, '57 Chrysler Imperial, Tweety!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Thu 14 Jun 2007:
Hey Dagman…I wonder if the IRS from the later XJS could be
modified a bit to slip into the E…I am pretty sure ‘‘93’’ was the
year when that model was to include outboards…Just a thought as
I am not too sure if that design was even close.
Matt
73 Roadster–
The original message included these comments:
I just disagree that inboard brakes are so wonderful. I can tell
you as a design engineer, that if I proposed a safety-critical
design with such logistical issues, I’d be smacked across the back
of the head and get told to ‘‘hit the try-harder button’’. For
racing purposes…‘ok’, but for a street car, it’s purely 60’s
bragging rights.
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
–
Matt63
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In reply to a message from Matt63 sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
Matt,
There’s was a '94 in the parking lot at work yesterday. I took a
look and confirmed that it had outboards, but I was in my nice work-
clothes, so I didn’t want to be groveling around on the ground to
get a closer look.
Today’s casual-friday, so if it’s there again, I’ll poke my head
under and see if I can see what had changed.–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
You’ll have to get some nice wheel-well flares - the XJ-S has a
considerably wider track than the E-type.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
…but wait a minute, I’m concerned, would it still be a ‘‘lump’’ if
some advernterous guy were to do this?–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
That’s why he said ‘‘modified to slip under an E-type’’.–
The original message included these comments:
You’ll have to get some nice wheel-well flares - the XJ-S has a
considerably wider track than the E-type.
–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Matt63 sent Fri 15 Jun 2007:
I don’t know much about the XJ-S, but the last Road & Track road
test of an XJ-S, the Walkinshaw XJR-S (3/93) claims that this car,
the last XJ-S available in the US, still had inboard brakes.
The XJ-S also has a rear track 8.6’’ wider than a SI E Type, 5’’ more
than a S III. Would some suspension re-engineering be required?
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
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