[E-Type] Brake hoses-stainless steel braided?

In reply to a message from Brian Caro sent Tue 30 Aug 2005:

Not been my experience, Brian. Modern ‘cables’ are a type of nylon
encased in the SS: I’ve had them on my DKW now for over 15
years…in perfect shape! They are also on Tweety and I installed
them on numerous race cars all of which saw tremendoud use, heat,
and constant inspection…NEVERa failure! They DON’T rot like the
rubber oens do! That’s the beauty!
If I have a choice, I put nothing else on but SS braided brake
hoses.–
The original message included these comments:

I never liked braided brake cables except for racing where the
cables get changed pretty often and the stiffer pedal and abrasion
resistance is reassuring. I like to be able to look at a cable and
see what its condition is, the stainless hides this. Brake cables
should be replaced about every 10 years or 100K miles anyway.
Braided ones will crack and stiffen (same rubber and it ages the
same way) in 10 years, you just cannot see it, a big negative! The
primary reason calipers seize is primarily due to the hygroscopic
nature of the fluid which absorbs water right through the hoses and
reservoir, the moisture in the fluid corrodes the piston surface
and creates friction until the piston doesn’t move. The other thing


Paul Wigton, '60 DKW 1000SP, '55 DKW Sonderklasse, Tweety!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Sun 28 Aug 2005:

Ok, Got the new hoses today from Terry’s. They are G-Stop,
made by Goodridge. The description on the package is:

‘‘Race-bred brakelines constructed from the finest quality
hose, consisting of a PTFE inner and stainless steel
overbraid.’’

They do not appear to be coated with anything $102.72 for
the set of three. They do note that they are 3/4’’ longer
than stock. Now, the one thing that I noted while reading
the instructions was that there are supposed to be crush
washers, yet, I see 5 bolts and 1 crush washer. Wrong? Do I
use crush washers on the E? If so, I guess that I can just
get them locally if they were left out. Also, it says to
torque the bolts down to between 14-24 ft/lbs. I’ve never
torqued a brake line to a spec before-just did it tight so
that it doesn’t leak. Am I missing something?

Bob

Bob–
'69 2+2 , '69 OTS
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In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Wed 31 Aug 2005:

Bob,

By bolts, I assume you mean nuts. IIRC those are not sealing
fasteners, but just hold the ends of the hoses to the frame,
right?

Goodridge is a brand I have used on several cars, no problems.

Call Terry and ask about the nuts/awashers. IIRC, there were shake-
proof washers on the retaining nuts at all positions. But the
source should be the supplier. I would follow all the instructions
to the letter…

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Tue 30 Aug 2005:

‘‘Seizing calipers…never (to my knowledge) result[s] in brakes
locking on, since the symptom is the opposite: pistons don’t
move, so no brakes at all.’’

‘‘Ho, ho, ho!’’ said everyone living near roads that get wet often,
and salted every winter. You California/Texas/Arizona/Florida dudes
don’t know you’re born! :slight_smile:

FWIW Jerry, I have never personally experienced a deteriorated hose
locking brakes on, although it happens. But I’ve had at least 15-20
cases - 2-wheeled or 4 - of calipers seizing on due to corrosion.
Admittedly that’s only my anecdotal experience, but it’s pretty
much the norm at the bottom end of the motor vehicle food chain
where I exist. Subsistence motoring it’s called, or ‘Bangernomics’!

In fact is is my view that most hydraulic brakes on vehicles used
in all weathers in the UK would eventually seize on due to
corrosion if no maintenance were performed. I’ve had seizure ON
(i.e. dragging brakes) due to corrosion on the caliper sliding pins
in single psiton designs like my old Honda CB 750 and many Yamahas.
I’ve had seizures due to piston corrosion on Moto Guzzi (Brembo),
Triumph (Nissin), Classic Triumph (Lockheed), Fords (Girling),
Renault & Peugeot (Bendix), Citroen (own brand system)…need I say
more?

Many of the above were not due to hygroscopic brake fluid either,
but to external moisture getting past dried/torn dust covers into
the piston/cylinder gap outboard of the seal, as John described on
his 40K XJ6. The fluid areas behind the seal are usually fine
except on really old clunkers like my E-type OEM calipers.

On my current Triumph (which has brakes acknowledged to be
absolutely stunning in power and feel) the pistons are stainless
and caliper body alloy but the brakes still drag after a year or so
without maintenance or if left standing for a long period after a
wet ride - especially the back brake which is exposed to more crud.

From memory the pistons have no separate dust cover, or a tiny one.
They are mostly just the exposed pistons (4 per caliper) sticking
out past the caliper body as the pads wear. When they get deposits
of pad dust and general muck they have trouble retracting properly
and a good clean is called for. After 6 years I guess I need to do
a pre-emptive seal ‘refresh’ too, since the twisting of that square-
section rubber part in its groove is all that pulls the piston
back. Maybe they are slightly ‘cooked’ now.

Put it this way, it will take far less corrosion to bind/seize a
caliper ON because the piston is too stiff to be pulled back by the
weak seal return action, than it would to seize the brake OFF
because it is corroded so solid that even major hydraulic pressure
does not push it against the disc…

Single-piston designs can play different tricks whereby only the
piston side pad wears if the caliper is seized on its sliding pins,
so in effect one half of the braking effort is seized OFF, which
comes close to your supposition, but we were talking about piston
seizure.–
Peter Crespin 66 2+2 ‘E’
Buxton, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Peter Crespin sent Wed 31 Aug 2005:

Peter:

Does what I experienced sound like what you described about
corroded calipers partially sticking on?

I rebuilt my master cylinder after I experienced a complete
brake failure (foot to the floor-no pedal, no stoppng).
Fortunantly it took place just after pulling out of my
driveway while going only about 5 mph and was able to get
the car back without incident. After the rebuild everythig
seemed to work fine on the initial test. The following day I
started off for a 30 mile round trip. I got to an interstate
after crossing a bridge and at 60 mph, noticed that I had
smoke pouring out from under my car. I stopped and peeked
under the car. My rear brakes were literally glowing red. My
front brakes seemed to be just fine.

Naturally when I pulled the rear, the calipers were a mess.
The dust covers were completely charred so I have no way of
determining if the calipers functioned. The rotors
(surprisingly) turnd out not to be warped but were covered
with brake material baked on and cleaned up just fine. I
don’t recall that the car felt sluggish overcoming the rear
brakes as I drove. In fact, until I noticed the smoke, I
thought that things were normal.

Bob–
'69 2+2 , '69 OTS
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Wed 31 Aug 2005:

Bolts, nuts, I’m dyslexic :wink:
You’re right, they are nuts.

Bob–
The original message included these comments:

By bolts, I assume you mean nuts. IIRC those are not sealing
fasteners, but just hold the ends of the hoses to the frame,
right?


'69 2+2 , '69 OTS
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In reply to a message from Paul Spurlock sent Tue 30 Aug 2005:

I bought a front/rear set including the clutch in st.st braided
that were coated, I didn’t think about it at the time but have been
asked on a few occasions where I got them.

Dave–
The original message included these comments:

I bought a set from CJ, no sleeves. Don’t see any reason one couldn’t put a sleeve on them tho. Might be a little sloppy but so what. Good idea.
pauls 67ots
When buying stainless braided, one of the things to look for is
that they have a plastic sleeve over the stainless. This avoids
the abrasion problem. The Goodridge hoses I just installed on my


'61 OTS, I’ll do work for parts
Pershore, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Dave K sent Fri 2 Sep 2005:

Ok, got the lines instlled. They are of course stiffer than
the rubber hoses and smaller in exterior diameter. Because
of the warning in the installation directions to make sure
that they didn’t foul or were twisted during installation, I
was very careful on positioning them. After viewing the
intallation it is clear that the hoses were designed to just
fit the application with no excess to slop about. With that
and their stiffness I don’t see a need for a coating. The
hoses comfortably clear the front wheels at full lock and
the rear has more than ample clearance.

Bob–
'69 2+2 , '69 OTS
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In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Sun 4 Sep 2005:

Dave,

Be sure the lines are not twisted when the wheels are at ‘‘mid-
laden’’ position, i.e. fully weighted and rolled through a few car
lengths. You want them untwisted 95% of the time, though they will
be twisted when you jack them up. If they are untwisted when
jacked up, they will be twisted most of the time. Same rule for
rubber suspension bushings.

Just a tip, I’m sure you saw this…

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton
Palo Alto, California, United States
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