[E-Type] Break in oil

E-Type
1

I just returned from a 2,500 mile trip down to Daytona Beach FL and
back to Brooklyn in my 1955 Sunbeam Alpine. I was attending the
Sunbeam United there and one of the events they had for us was a
visit to Crane Cams. It was a really interesting tour of their
facility and at the end just after we visited their R & D dept. we
had a question and answer session. The topic of the new oils came
up. They acknowledge that they have had a great increase in failures
of new cams since the ZDDP has been removed. They said that so far
they have covered all under their warranty, but have cut open and
analyzed the damaged cam lobes. They said that in all cases the
damage was not caused by a soft cam lobe but rather by the inability
of the new oils to help induce the rotation of the tappet during the
break in period. They said they there is a minute angle ground into
the face of the came lobe as well as a really minute conical grind
to the top of the tappet. The reason for these shapes is that the
cam will then rotate the tappet slightly on each pass. The new oil
without the additive is actually more slippery than when it had the
ZDDP and it has lost the ability to properly rotate the tappets.
They say that the long term result on a older engine has yet to be
determined but it definitely is a very serious problem with the
installation of a new cam. They had two brands of break in oil they
recommend to all their customers which were formulated with enough of
the ZCCP additive to be effective for break in of a new motor. Since
their focus was their cams we didn’t discuss other break in parts
like the rings seating or the bearing surfaces burnishing in. I am
going to call them to get the ordering information for these break
in oils as my motor rebuild is almost complete at Terry Lippincott’s,
although with its original cams and so perhaps not a problem.

Dave Reina
67 ots

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

2

In reply to a message from David Reina sent Sun 14 Oct 2007:

The cam lobes are too soft.

It is easy to make a processing error in case hardening cam lobes
thereby rendering them too soft.

The microhardness profiles of cam lobes is a quantifiable measure
whose results have not been presented in the above argument.–
The original message included these comments:

analyzed the damaged cam lobes. They said that in all cases the
damage was not caused by a soft cam lobe but rather by the inability
of the new oils to help induce the rotation of the tappet during the
break in period. They said they there is a minute angle ground into

–
Uncle John L with a '72 OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

3

Non-destructively and after the fact?

Mike Moore

— sergeantcartera@yahoo.com wrote:From: “Uncle John L” sergeantcartera@yahoo.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Break in oil
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:34:45 +0200

In reply to a message from David Reina sent Sun 14 Oct 2007:

The cam lobes are too soft.

It is easy to make a processing error in case hardening cam lobes
thereby rendering them too soft.

The microhardness profiles of cam lobes is a quantifiable measure
whose results have not been presented in the above argument.

The original message included these comments:

analyzed the damaged cam lobes. They said that in all cases the
damage was not caused by a soft cam lobe but rather by the inability
of the new oils to help induce the rotation of the tappet during the
break in period. They said they there is a minute angle ground into

–
Uncle John L with a '72 OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

4

In reply to a message from sent Sun 14 Oct 2007:

After the fact, non-destructively is irrelevant.–
Uncle John L with a '72 OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

5

In reply to a message from David Reina sent Sun 14 Oct 2007:

Dave,

My 2 cents FWIW.

First of all I think it’s iffy at best to transfer a partial
understanding of a manufacturer’s warranty issue to your own
situation. How many XK cams with 1.375’’ lifters, .394’’ lift, and
140 lbs./open springs does Crane sell? None? How many .842’’
diameter Chevy flat tappets on .550’’ lift cams with 300 lb./open
valve springs? Lots. Who’s installing those Chevy cams? Do-it -
yourselfers mostly. Cam lobe loading has been going up every year
because cam manufacturers have to compete for the market by
claiming their designs make more power and at the cheap DIY end
that means more lift without the expense of roller lifters. For all
the talk about oil I’ve yet to hear about any XK lfter/cam
failures. That doesn’t mean an MGB won’t have issues but that’s a
different valvetrain. There’s somthing odd about Crane’s
explanation. If the oil is so slippery that the lifters don’t
rotate, then why would they wear? Wouldn’t that friction reduction
also apply to the resistance to rotation?

As I understand it ZDDP as an oil additive works by dissolving into
the metal surface. As such once the engine is treated one can run
normal oil until the treatment wears away (again, it’s not a
coating). It works by depressing any microwelding between rubbing
parts which would start wear. That sounds like it makes it slippery.
I’ve read that Duralube is mostly ZDDP so one could use that
product with any oil. The downside is that ZDDP can become
corrosive if left in the engine. It may interfere with ring seating
on a fresh rebuild. While I don’t recommend it, you might want to
throw in some Duralube for the last 100 miles of your third
oilchange. What I do recommend is that you talk to Terry as to what
course of action he’s found to be successful.

BTW, congrats on your Sunbeam trip. We’re getting ready to fire
a '54 Sunbeam rebuild. And I thought Jag parts were hard to get.

Regards,
Rich Olson '67 OTS–
The original message included these comments:

I just returned from a 2,500 mile trip down to Daytona Beach FL and
back to Brooklyn in my 1955 Sunbeam Alpine. I was attending the
Sunbeam United there and one of the events they had for us was a
visit to Crane Cams. It was a really interesting tour of their
facility and at the end just after we visited their R & D dept. we
had a question and answer session. The topic of the new oils came
up. They acknowledge that they have had a great increase in failures
of new cams since the ZDDP has been removed. They said that so far
they have covered all under their warranty, but have cut open and
analyzed the damaged cam lobes. They said that in all cases the
damage was not caused by a soft cam lobe but rather by the inability

–
Richard Olson
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

6

In reply to a message from Richard Olson sent Sun 14 Oct 2007:

I posted this earlier in another thread, maybe it’s
pertinent here also.--------------------------------
I have tried to research this oil/flat tappet situation for
quite a while. I realized that NASCAR by rule had to run a
flat tappet cam. I wrote to Joe Gibbs Racing’s Lake Speed,
Jr who is one of their technical people. The following is
my letter and his reply.

Dear Mr Speed,
I own a 1964 Jaguar E-Type. I an concerned about the ‘‘flat
tappet wear’’ problem that comes from using current oils. Can
your oils be used in this car? If so, which Joe Gibbs oil
would be the best to use?
Regards, Richard Cunningham

Richard,
Our BR break-in oil and XP4 oil contain 2,800 ppm of Zinc.
You should use either the XP4 or the BR to run the engine
for about 1 hour or more on the dyno. After that, Mobil
Delvac deisel oil is a good quality oil for normal use. The
key to cam protection is high anti-wear for the first 1 to 2
hours of engine operation, and then follow that with a good
quality engine oil with sufficient zinc (Delvac has approx.
1,200 ppm zinc).
I hope this helps,
Lake Speed
Joe Gibbs Racing

I appreciate your suggestions. There has been a lot of
conversations in our British Car Club about this subject,
but so far it’s seems to all be speculation or hearsay.
Many are talking about using Valvoline racing oil for
everyday driving because it’s easily available. Do you feel
that this is a good solution or is a diesel oil like the
Mobil Delvac better for our cars? One of our members is a
restorer and he is especially concerned about this since he
rebuilds engines on a regular basis. I hope you don’t mind,
but I will probably quote you at our next meeting because
this has become a big issue (whether it’s really warranted
or not) at our gatherings.
Thanks again,
Richard Cunningham

Richard,
First, the API (oil industry standards group) has been
reducing the amount of Phosphorus in engine oils (SAE 30
weight and under) since 1996. The limit started at 1,200 ppm
of Phosphorus, and it is now at 800 ppm. When you limit
Phosphorus you also limit Zinc. Phosphorus and Zinc combine
to make ZDDP - a very proven anti-wear additive, so what you
have heard is true.

Running a racing oil in a historic car is an okay solution
as long as the change interval is shorter. You would need to
change at 1,000 miles instead of 3,000 due to the fact that
racing oils have less detergent than PCMO’s (passenger car
motor oils). A semi synthetic racing oil would be a good
choice. It won’t cost as much as a full synthetic, but it
provides a really high quality oil.

We have a technical bulletin on our website that you can
download. I hope this helps.

Lake

Maybe this will help shed some light on this subject. There
is also a ton of articles available on the internet. One
good one is http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/eb60652.htm

–
The original message included these comments:

As I understand it ZDDP as an oil additive works by dissolving into
the metal surface. As such once the engine is treated one can run
normal oil until the treatment wears away (again, it’s not a
coating). It works by depressing any microwelding between rubbing
parts which would start wear. That sounds like it makes it slippery.
I’ve read that Duralube is mostly ZDDP so one could use that

–
Richard Cunningham - 64 S1 3.8 FHC, 88 XJS
Daphne, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

7

Hi Richard and Uncle John L,

Well I hope the new oils don’t prove to be a problem with our
Jaguars. I have continued to use Castrol 20- 50 in my older cars,
but perhaps there are better oils these days. I am willing to spend
more on oil for my older cars but I get conflicting information about
which really is the right one. One more thing that the R & D fellow
from Crane suggested is to remove the valve cover when testing a
motor with a new cam. On a pushrod V8 he said to mark a side of each
pushrod with a spot of paint and observe them with the engine
running. They all should be rotating about the same speed. He
indicated that with the new oils the pushrods will not consistently
rotate as they do when using the Zinc additive.

Rich, good luck with the Alpine. I got most of my parts from the
Bamforth’s in South Yorkshire, but its a slow and expensive process
to get parts shipped here. Tony Bamforth is helpful with advice.
They sell an all syncro overdrive transmission setup for the cars. I
also bought some parts from Kip Motors in Texas. In the last 6 years
I have traveled about 7,500 miles in a 53 Alpine, a 53 Drophead Coupe
and a 55 Alpine.

My Jaguar which I have owned for 25 years, is nearing completion of
an engine and front suspension rebuild and bodywork and paint at
Terry Lippincott’s. It was through this list that I heard about
Terry’s shop and I am really enjoying the restoration experience with
his shop. I hope to drive it home soon and I need to go into the
archives and read about tire recommendations to fit on original
wires. ( I don’t think I can afford new 6" wires right now)

Regards,
Dave Reina
67ots

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php