Has anybody successfully used washers other than copper under the cam cover
nuts? Mine are leaking oil and I’m wondering whether fiber or some kind of
rubber would make a better oil-proof seal. Thanks.
Norm Black
67 FHC
63 OTS
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from DEIRDRE BLACK sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
Norm,
The copper washers will seal just fine when used properly.
First, buy all new ones, they’re pennies apiece. Then heat them
cherry red, and let them cool down before installing. This will
anneal (soften) them. Don’t over-tighten when you put the acorn
nuts on.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
Hi Ray, I am a firm believer in reusing the copper washers,
IF they are not seriously deformed on their surface. I was
under the impression, however, that copper is softened by
heating to cherry red followed by quenching in water. At
least this has worked for me. Annealing steel to soften it
does require a slow cooling, but I think the situation with
steel is more complicated than I know about.regards–
The original message included these comments:
The copper washers will seal just fine when used properly.First, buy all new ones, they’re pennies apiece. Then heat them
cherry red, and let them cool down before installing. This will
anneal (soften) them. Don’t over-tighten when you put the acorn
nuts on.
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
–
John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5-Speed, 1970 SII OTS
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
Hi John,
I was confused by this in the past and did a little internet research
on the topic of annealing copper and what I found out was that it
didn’t matter with copper weather you cooled it fast or slow, but as
another lister mentioned the rapid cooling in water removes the
‘scale’. JMTCW
Cheers,
LynnOn Mar 26, 2006, at 4:49 AM, John M Holmes wrote:
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
Hi Ray, I am a firm believer in reusing the copper washers,
IF they are not seriously deformed on their surface. I was
under the impression, however, that copper is softened by
heating to cherry red followed by quenching in water. At
least this has worked for me. Annealing steel to soften it
does require a slow cooling, but I think the situation with
steel is more complicated than I know about.regardsThe original message included these comments:
The copper washers will seal just fine when used properly.First, buy all new ones, they’re pennies apiece. Then heat them
cherry red, and let them cool down before installing. This will
anneal (soften) them. Don’t over-tighten when you put the acorn
nuts on.
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA–
John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5-Speed, 1970 SII OTS
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from John M Holmes sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
John,
As you say, re-using the copper washers is fine IF they have
not been significantly deformed. In this case, since the problem
appears to be chronic leakage, it’s a pretty safe bet the washers
are deformed, and should be replaced.
As for the annealing, with copper it makes no real difference
whether you air cool or water quench. Either will work just fine.
Steel is a difference matter. To soften steel, slow cooling is
essential.–
The original message included these comments:
Hi Ray, I am a firm believer in reusing the copper washers,
IF they are not seriously deformed on their surface. I was
under the impression, however, that copper is softened by
heating to cherry red followed by quenching in water. At
least this has worked for me. Annealing steel to soften it
does require a slow cooling, but I think the situation with
steel is more complicated than I know about.regardsJohn M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5-Speed, 1970 SII OTS
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Lynn Gardner sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
I just ordered Copper washers from MSC # 67494526 on
Friday. The dimensions seem right & I can post on hardness
after they arrive…
Abner–
lilAbner
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from lilAbner sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
Abner,
Just don’t forget to anneal them…–
The original message included these comments:
I just ordered Copper washers from MSC # 67494526 on
Friday. The dimensions seem right & I can post on hardness
after they arrive…
AbnerlilAbner
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
Ray,
Your original post on this subject seemed to imply
that ‘new’ copper washers should also be
annealed. Is that correct? I’ve never heard that
before and don’t understand why it would be
necessary. Please enlighten me. Thanks,
Larry
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from JKOHLER@sbcglobal.net sent Sun 26 Mar 2006:
Larry,
What assurance do you have that new ones have already been
annealed? They could easily be work hardened through the rolling
and stamping processes that create them. Better safe than sorry,
no?–
The original message included these comments:
Ray,
Your original post on this subject seemed to imply
that ‘new’ copper washers should also be
annealed. Is that correct? I’ve never heard that
before and don’t understand why it would be
necessary. Please enlighten me. Thanks,
Larry
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
I can’t seem to source really soft copper washers so I went on a
website (superiorwasher.com) that has specialty washers and
thought I would order some washers. Years ago I did source
some fibre washers that were slightly better than the copper.
Today I would like to try some newer technology. So I have listed
various types below and if anyone has any experience or thoughts
as to which may be a better solution, I would love to hear. There
are some washer types below that I have no idea about the
material
Aluminum Special Flat Washers
Brass Special Flat Washers
Celcon Special Flat Washers
Copper Special Flat Washers
Delrin Special Flat Washers
Fiber Glass Special Flat Washers
Fiber Special Flat Washers
Inconel Special Flat Washers
Kapton Special Flat Washers
Laminated Brass Special Flat Washers
Monel Special Flat Washers
Mylar Special Flat Washers
Neoprene Special Flat Washers
Nylatron Special Flat Washers
Nylon Special Flat Washers
Polyethylene Special Flat Washers
Polypropylene Special Flat Washers
PTFE Special Flat Washer
PVC Special Flat Washers–
Dennis Vancouver Canada 69 Roadster
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Dennismo sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
I do not see Stat-O-Seal listed. I have not yet tried
them, but often heard them mentioned as working well for
this application.
Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Dennismo sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
Dennis,
McMaster-Carr has some copper washers that work. They are
working fine on my valve covers. If they are not soft
enough for you you can anneal them: heat red hot and then
let them cool (or dump in water). These others are not
copper, and that’s part of the look. Are you getting
massive leaks from there?
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Dennismo sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
Dennis, You can get the real deal OEM washers from a Jaguar
dealer. They are not cheap, but they work. I bought some
from McMaster Carr, but one side was imprinted with letters
which defeats the purpose of sealing.
Regards,
Allen–
alodmd
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from alodmd sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
No characters on mine, FWIW…
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Dennismo sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
Get copper washers and anneal them.
Heat to cherry red in the flame on your gas stove top then drop
into a bucket of water. This softens the copper and makes it
malleable when you tighten the nut.–
The original message included these comments:
I can’t seem to source really soft copper washers so I went on a
–
Andrew B. '67 S1 & S1.5 FHCs,'64 S1 OTS www.projectetype.com
Adelaide, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from abowie sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
In the ‘for what it’s worth department’ copper doesn’t have to
be ‘quenched’ to anneal, however it does help clean off some
of the scale.
Cheers,
Lynn–
The original message included these comments:
Heat to cherry red in the flame on your gas stove top then drop
into a bucket of water. This softens the copper and makes it
malleable when you tighten the nut.
–
Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from L.Lynn sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
I agree Lynn-it (annealing) also works well on old washers–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from abowie sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
In the ‘for what it’s worth department’ copper doesn’t have to
be ‘quenched’ to anneal, however it does help clean off some
–
Mike Moore 63 S1 OTS #878877
Morgan Hill, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Mike Moore sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
Not to suggest that Jaguar was ever wrong, but most
applications of copper or aluminum crush washers that I’ve
seen require more torque than you can use on the fragile
Jaguar cam covers (particularly the smooth type). IMHO
obviously.–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
Good point Bob,
I wondered about that too, I used just a light smear of
Hylomar on the washers. JMTCW 
Cheers,
Lynn–
The original message included these comments:
Not to suggest that Jaguar was ever wrong, but most
applications of copper or aluminum crush washers that I’ve
seen require more torque than you can use on the fragile
Jaguar cam covers (particularly the smooth type). IMHO
obviously.
–
Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Tue 3 Mar 2015:
Bob,
I find that after using about 5-7 ft-lb on the nuts, not
excessive, the washers come out with a compressed image of
the nut. Must be soft enough to deform somewhat.
I use a smear of copper colored silicone seal, same deal,
Lynn. Two of the stud holes in one of my covers were
cracked and repaired by the PO. Sealed but with an uneven
surface so leakage was inevitable without some kind of
seal. I’ve never found a really good replacement cover and
by now I guess I’d have to spend a few large to get one.
Even when I didn’t use to apply anything, I never had a
leak beyond a small oily area immediately around the nut,
easy to wipe off and never reaching the edge of the cover.
YMMV.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php