In reply to a message from JDBarrister sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
By that same logic, I could blame the two sets of failed
clutch slave seals on the fact that I used DOT4 instead of
DOT3. There is absolutely no evidence to support either
theory. FAR more likely, you got a pump with a cr@p Chinese
diaphragm, and it probably would’ve failed no matter what fuel
you used.–
The original message included these comments:
was making it to the engine. I pulled the pump out and the
new rubber gasket on the fuel pump was the consistency of
warm chewed gum. It was dripping from the pump. I’m
guessing it is the ethanol, but it could just be bad karmic
vibes from California gas. Either way I’m swapping the pump
out for a new one (hopefully under warranty) and replacing
the gas with happy ethanol free Colorado gas.
Bruce
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
But there is evidence; perhaps not where you may have
looked. Most of the issues came early in the marine
industry and that is where testing took place. The link
provides reports of testing from this countries largest
boaters advocacy group, Boat/US. Personal experience is
just that and not verifiable testing.
The US Coast Guard is testing isobutanol blended gas as an
alternative to ethanol due to the known issues; it should
be completed. The link indicates testing to date was
favorable.
This is one of those topics that will go round and round,
as it has in the past, and will continue into the future.–
The original message included these comments:
DOT3. There is absolutely no evidence to support either
theory. FAR more likely, you got a pump with a cr@p Chinese
–
Ralph, 1970 FHC, 1R27295
Coastal NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
I use Marathon 90 REC that’s at one station here in town. Has less than .05% ethanol. My ole jag master mechanic said he’s seen lots of issues with carbs and fuels systems since the introduction of ethanol, especially in cars that sit. He uses an additive in the cars he works on.
A lawn care pal says they quit using ethanol fuel in his weed wackers and small engines due to issues with fuel lines and pressure bulbs. They said some weed eaters would not run until they put ethanol free fuel in them. I assume that could actually just be old gas problem too.
That’s all I needed. I’ll use reg fuel when I can’t find a pump but I’ll top off with the ethanol free when I get back home.
Scott Willis
59 MGA 1500
60 BN7 Austin Healey Club USA/Bluegrass Austin Healey Club
66 E-Type FHC S1
http://bgeuroclassics.webs.com/
BG Euro Classics Car Club President
Bowling Green, KY
100% CONTACT: swillis@columbia.com----------------------------------------
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
But there is evidence; perhaps not where you may have
looked. Most of the issues came early in the marine
industry and that is where testing took place. The link
provides reports of testing from this countries largest
boaters advocacy group, Boat/US. Personal experience is
just that and not verifiable testing.
The US Coast Guard is testing isobutanol blended gas as an
alternative to ethanol due to the known issues; it should
be completed. The link indicates testing to date was
favorable.
Scott Willis
59 MGA 1500
60 BN7 Austin Healey Club USA/Bluegrass Austin Healey Club
66 E-Type FHC S1
http://bgeuroclassics.webs.com/
BG Euro Classics Car Club President
Bowling Green, KY
100% CONTACT: swillis@columbia.com----------------------------------------
I use Marathon 90 REC that’s at one station here in town. Has less than .05% ethanol. My ole jag master mechanic said he’s seen lots of issues with carbs and fuels systems since the introduction of ethanol, especially in cars that sit. He uses an additive in the cars he works on.
A lawn care pal says they quit using ethanol fuel in his weed wackers and small engines due to issues with fuel lines and pressure bulbs. They said some weed eaters would not run until they put ethanol free fuel in them. I assume that could actually just be old gas problem too.
That’s all I needed. I’ll use reg fuel when I can’t find a pump but I’ll top off with the ethanol free when I get back home.
Scott Willis
59 MGA 1500
60 BN7 Austin Healey Club USA/Bluegrass Austin Healey Club
66 E-Type FHC S1
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
But there is evidence; perhaps not where you may have
looked. Most of the issues came early in the marine
industry and that is where testing took place. The link
provides reports of testing from this countries largest
boaters advocacy group, Boat/US. Personal experience is
just that and not verifiable testing.
The US Coast Guard is testing isobutanol blended gas as an
alternative to ethanol due to the known issues; it should
be completed. The link indicates testing to date was
favorable.
In reply to a message from Scott Willis sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
Empirically, I have had more problems with my marine outboard,
since the implement of ethanol-mix gasoline, and have had to pull
the bowl and clean out a ‘‘sugary’’ substance before I can get
motoring (and that is with regular use (1x @ week)); I have been
left stranded, and worse, and am now I harbor (pun intended) a
general fear that when I am motoring in heavy commercial traffic
(LA Harbor) that I may not have the motor when I really need it,
which can be downright stressful. Luckily, I have sails that can
get me out of most situations and I sail all the way back to the
slip, on a regular basis, so as to maintain the skill of not having
to have a petrol-based power source.
If the engine sits for more than a week the occurrence of the fuel-
related problem(s) increases. It is that simple. Even in low-
humidity SoCal.
Which is where I am going with this- as many of the older Brit cars
don’t get the mileage put on them that newer cars do, maybe a fuel
stabilizer might be a regular addition to the regimen of filling
up. It is for me, of late.
I, not necessarily nostalgically, remember many a car from my
distant past, that had been sitting for many years (my favorite
a '36 Packard that had not been run for 50 circumnav’s around the
sun) that would come to life with fresh fuel and some starting
fluid and that was it, but after being stuck on an island for some
days past when expected due back on the mainland due to what I
found at the bottom of my float bowl that I had not seen in years
prior to Ethanol-mix fuels, I must pay heed and wonder if there is
a connection.
My $.02
Huff–
69 2+2 color- London Fog
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Huff sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
Huff, I know well that stressful feeling you get. We have
a couple of inlets here that can get interesting in the
right conditions. Check the first link in my last post.
Some good info that may help–
The original message included these comments:
motoring (and that is with regular use (1x @ week)); I have been
left stranded, and worse, and am now I harbor (pun intended) a
general fear that when I am motoring in heavy commercial traffic
(LA Harbor) that I may not have the motor when I really need it,
which can be downright stressful. Luckily, I have sails that can
–
Ralph, 1970 FHC, 1R27295
Coastal NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Breen60 sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
HA! These discussions are as frequent as tires (tyres?) it
seems…
Reminds me of arguing with my brother growing up, ‘‘no it
doesn’t, yes it does, no it doesn’t, yes it does’’.
Afraid it’s not a black and white deal, with obvious mixed
experiences.
However, on a VERY serious note, this topic needs to move
towards A/C refrig:
I drove the S3 and froze myself out (R12), parked it and
then drove the Disco (R134) home, which required fan speed
‘‘4’’ (fastest) and achieved a tolerable environment but not
the perfectly frigid one I had in the S3. Both systems are
in tip-top shape. I have scientifically concluded that R12
is better by measuring the sweet stains left on both
seats. Keeping in mind that the S3 has leather vs. the LR
cloth and thus measuring the S3 stain requires both sharp
eyes and careful examination of shininess where I’ve worn
the leather conditioner off.
In reply to a message from J Schroeder sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
Hooo weeee…snake oil and conspiracy theories !!
It may be controversial,but not because of a lack of
definite answers based on science.
Just read a lot…not a little and you will find a lot of
actual science on ethanol in fuel…(similary, read about the
additive packages and changes in motor oils since 50s to
now). Only doing your own research will suffice. Opinions
are only opinions. Facts are facts. There IS a definitive
answer to both the ethanol and the engine oil questions. Go
find em !!
I won’t even state here what I now believe to be true in
both cases, based on the science I have read. Yes, I
know…consider the sources. Modern cars are made for the
modern fuels and oils. But sometimes one technology moves at
a different speed from the other: do you recall when fuel
injection became standard how LONG it took to get fuel that
did not clog the injectors. A lot of money used to be spent
on cleaning clogged fuel injectors. ‘‘I’m just saying…’’
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Fri 18 Jul 2014:
Gee, Nick,
I believe that change for fuel injection was a redesign of
the injectors to avoid cleaning rather than a change in
fuel. Oh, and despite what was said cleaning the injectors
was still necessary to get the best out of an engine at
least up to 2000, maybe later. The facts are out there!
Jerry–
The original message included these comments:
modern fuels and oils. But sometimes one technology moves at
a different speed from the other: do you recall when fuel
injection became standard how LONG it took to get fuel that
did not clog the injectors. A lot of money used to be spent
on cleaning clogged fuel injectors. ‘‘I’m just saying…’’
–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from J Schroeder sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
Did the same with my little brother - the ‘‘yes/no’’ thing.
We both grew up to be engineers. Expect he would agree
that if the discussion is perhaps short experimental
rigour the time to worry about it is when I can’t buy 98
for my old rigs. Paul–
The original message included these comments:
HA! These discussions are as frequent as tires (tyres?) it
seems…
Reminds me of arguing with my brother growing up, ‘‘no it
doesn’t, yes it does, no it doesn’t, yes it does’’.
Afraid it’s not a black and white deal, with obvious mixed
experiences.
–
Paul Breen
Sydney '62 E FHC, '72 ,XJ6 swb, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Geo H sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
I always wondered about that! Now I can go cut the branches
shorter so the wind will die down. This are a GREAT foruhm!
Bruce–
The original message included these comments:
‘‘Trees make the wind blow by waving their branches’’
–
Bruce Harless, '64 S1 ots
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from mouton sent Fri 18 Jul 2014:
Nick is correct. clogged injectors became a big problem in
the late 70’s with the widespread introduction of FI to
meet emission standards, and the 50,000 mile warranty
mandate. BMW took the lead with the oil companies I am
familiar with to develop detergent gasoline formulas to
alleviate the problem. Today, gasoline detergents, like
Chevron Techron, are very effective.
Hal–
The original message included these comments:
modern fuels and oils. But sometimes one technology moves at
a different speed from the other: do you recall when fuel
injection became standard how LONG it took to get fuel that
did not clog the injectors. A lot of money used to be spent
on cleaning clogged fuel injectors. ‘‘I’m just saying…’’
–
S1 4.2 FHC, Manhattan Beach, CA
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from HNS sent Sat 19 Jul 2014:
Hal,
Clearly Techron is very effective, but the dose in gasoline
is not enough. All of my FI cars get much more powerful
after a tank with Techron added. Techron is really just
Stoddard solvent, it says on the can.
An engineer on this list told us it was a redesign of the
injectors that made the difference.
YMMV.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from skiracer sent Wed 16 Jul 2014:
Ask Harley Davidson, Ducati and Moto Guzzi how their new
Plastic fuel tanks have fared with ethanol fuels.
They have been replacing fuel tanks left and right and that
is on bikes built in the last 5 years.
Ethanol eats up some of the darndest stuff. One would think
that a component that can withstand gasoline would hold up
to ethanol, but there are some exceptions. Certain fuel
floats and plastic components just don’t work well with the
stuff.–
The original message included these comments:
whenever possible in cars older than about 1985. There are
issues with older materials’ comparability with the ethanol,
particularly swelling soft goods and a few that will
decompose. At the minimum I would use ethanol free fuel
with a stabilizer when storing a car for longer than a week
or two. As previously said ethanol is hygroscopic and will
absorb water, with all the attendant corrosion issues. If
you keep the ethanol from sitting too long in the fuel
Doug- 1968 Series 1.5 E-Type OTS 1E16060
–
'68 OTS : ‘03XJR I canna’ change the Law of Physics–Scotty
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Richard Kuschel sent Tue 7 Oct 2014:
Given that most of the world switched to Ethanol-compatible
materials in fuel systems starting over 30 years, ago, seems
to me H-D, Ducati and Moto-Guzzi screwed up, big time!
There is no excuse for that.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Richard Kuschel sent Tue 7 Oct 2014:
The only thing I’ve noticed is the plastic float in my fuel
sending unit. The floats are not available individually. After the
second one failed I replaced it with a wine cork, works fine. I
realize E-10 can degrade certain components, but so far my fuel
pump and carbs have not been affected.
Joel–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc, '97 XJ-6
Denison, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Richard Kuschel sent Tue 7 Oct 2014:
Richard, 10+ years ago we did lab work ( before I retired
)on gasolene fuel containing ethanol.We were most interested
in the effect on nitrile rubber seals, and found fuel
containing low levels of ethanol have little adverse
effect.Also note that the additive packages in the gas vary
by manufacturer and grade of gas.There seems to be many
urban legends about ethanol, and since its also a very
political topic I fear that clear scientific analysis is
often absent!–
The original message included these comments:
Ask Harley Davidson, Ducati and Moto Guzzi how their new
Plastic fuel tanks have fared with ethanol fuels.
Ethanol eats up some of the darndest stuff. One would think
that a component that can withstand gasoline would hold up
to ethanol, but there are some exceptions. Certain fuel
'68 OTS : ‘03XJR I canna’ change the Law of Physics–Scotty
–
John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5Sp, 70 SII OTS 05XJ8L
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from John M Holmes sent Wed 8 Oct 2014:
What about the damage done the by water that separates from
the ethanol if it sits for a while? I’ve seen rust and
corroded aluminum due to that.
Ethanol definitely affects some types of fibreglass fuel
tanks too, commonly used on some airplanes.
I can get ethanol free gas fairly easily now so that’s all I
use for anything that’s not in constant use. It’s quite easy
to test gas for ethanol.–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
