[E-Type] Click, nothing. Click, nothing

E-Type
21

Chris,
I’ve been away from the forum for a coupla days so apologize if you’ve
tested these things but your car has a starter relay and a starter
solenoid. Do you know the relay is working? When you say the starter
spins, I assume you mean it cranks the motor? If the starter motor
spins without cranking the solenoid is not energizing.
pauls 67ots

In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!

this is killing me!

There is 12v at the top solenoid terminal from the battery.
verified with test lamp.

I removed the copper strap between Solenoid lower terminal and
starter. Cleaned up the strap, cleaned up the screw terminals,
cleaned up the nuts, used copper ease and tightened everything up.

Starter spins when 12v applied to input terminal on stater case.

How come when I short out the upper and lower solenoid terminals I
get nothing? Not even a tint spark. Surely this is giving direct
12v feed to the starter and it should spin.

What on earth is going on…???
<<<<<<<<<<From: “db7gtgrigio” christophera@fastmail.com.au
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Click, nothing. Click, nothing

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22

In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Mon 2 Jul 2012:

Paul thanks for the message. I have tested everything I
can think of but something does not make sense:

  1. Solenoid has 12v at battery input when starter
    operated. Can feel the solenoid engaging big clunk.
  2. Starter spins fine when direct 12v applied to the
    input terminal on starter case. So starter known to work.
  3. Bridging the 2 terminals on the solenoid does NOT make
    the starter spin.

How can this be? Since I can prove there is 12v at the top
terminal and I know starter works with 12v and I have
cleaned the copper connection between lower solenoid
terminal and the starter input terminal, then surely
bridging the solenoid terminals should provide a direct
12v feed to the starter terminal? So how come it spins
when remote battery attached direct to starter but not
when I directly connect the car battery. Must be something
in the connections between battery positive and the
starter terminal.

I removed and cleaned the battery terminals, the connector
block above the voltage regulator, the two terminals on
the solenoid and the solenoid to starter connection. I
added a separate ground wire from engine to chassis.

All that is left is to clean the existing ground wires
from bell housing to gearbox tunnel, and the direct
battery connection on the bracket at the front of the
starter. I removed, cleaned and tested the starter relay
it is passing 11v to the actuator on the solenoid.

I am really pulling my hair out? Solenoid clinks. Starter
turns with direct feed. What else could there be???

I now have removed the under tray panel and the vacuum
tank so at least access is a bit easier.–
The original message included these comments:

solenoid. Do you know the relay is working? When you say the starter
spins, I assume you mean it cranks the motor? If the starter motor

–
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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23

In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Mon 2 Jul 2012:

Chris,

The only possible explanation for what you describe is that there
is a break in continuity between the switched solenoid terminal and
the starter. Broken cable?? Bad crimp terminal on the cable?

What happens if you use a jump-lead between solenoid & starter…
will it start on the key then??–
The original message included these comments:

How can this be? Since I can prove there is 12v at the top
terminal and I know starter works with 12v and I have
cleaned the copper connection between lower solenoid
terminal and the starter input terminal, then surely
bridging the solenoid terminals should provide a direct
12v feed to the starter terminal? So how come it spins
I am really pulling my hair out? Solenoid clinks. Starter
turns with direct feed. What else could there be???

–
Dave S3E,RR SS, BMW’02,Tr4a,Elise, http://www.xketype.com
Georgetown, Penang, Malaysia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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24

In reply to a message from David Lacey sent Mon 2 Jul 2012:

I must be missing something. Your starter turns, so it’s
okay. The obvious answer is a bad solenoid contact. The
solenoid has two parts: a coil with an armature that moves
one or two copper contacts when energized, and a plate with
matching contact(s) that connects to the starter proper. When
you energize the solenoid directly (bypassing all the wiring)
and hear nothing, it usually means the coil has gone south.
If you hear a ‘click’ it means the coil is okay, and the
contacts are meeting, but they are worn or corroded and not
passing the (quite large) current needed to turn the starter.–
1969 4.2 Series 2 E Type, 1919 Ssssstanley
Brentwood Bay, B.C., Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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25

In reply to a message from IanCameron sent Tue 3 Jul 2012:

I have given in and removed the starter. Will bench test
it so should be able to diagnose more effectively.
Unlikely I will put the old one back in…

Removal was not as bad as other posts had suggested. A bit
painful but at least I was able to get an offset ring
spanner on the upper mounting bolt. Bloody Hell it is
heavy though…–
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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26

I tested my old E-type starter the way you describe.

Shortened both solenoid heavy contacts.
The solenoid is now out of play.

applied 12V to the top contact where normally the thick wire coming
from the battery resides.
The starter motor run fine, no problem

Thus there Must be some sort of insulation between the lower solenoid
bolt and the starter motor itself.

I am curious what you will find.

Jos Raven
1969 2+2
Holland

At 23:36 1-7-2012 -0700, you wrote:>In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!

this is killing me!

There is 12v at the top solenoid terminal from the battery.
verified with test lamp.

I removed the copper strap between Solenoid lower terminal and
starter. Cleaned up the strap, cleaned up the screw terminals,
cleaned up the nuts, used copper ease and tightened everything up.

Starter spins when 12v applied to input terminal on stater case.

How come when I short out the upper and lower solenoid terminals I
get nothing? Not even a tint spark. Surely this is giving direct
12v feed to the starter and it should spin.

What on earth is going on…???

The original message included these comments:

I’d take the two big wires off the solenoid having
disconected the battery and clean up all the contacts on the
cables and the two big screws on the solenoid. Then put them

–
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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27

In reply to a message from Jos Raven sent Wed 4 Jul 2012:

Ok I have tested the s.tarter on my bench and I think I
have discovered the problem…

12v to top terminal of solenoid and ground to the
starter itself. I then applied 12v to the actuate wire
and starter operated perfectly. I then moved the 12v feed
to the input cable at the bridge shaped bracket on the
front of the starter. I then Applied 12v to the actuate
wire and click, click click but no turning of the starter
motor. Further investigation shows the brass nut that
secures the 12v feed cable to the solenoid and the 12v
cable from the battery at the carrier bracket at front of
starter was not completely tight.

My hypothesis is therefore this:

The connection between 12v from the battery and the cable
to the the solenoid positive input was sufficient to show
12v with my multimeter and test lamp, and to actuate the
solenoid, but inadequate to pass the necessary amps to
actually turn the starter.

It had been suggested I clean all the connections and this
was the one I could not reach with the starter in place :slight_smile:

Typical! looks like my starter is in rude good health
after all!

So the question is now, do I just clean everything up and
put the original starter back (so heavy, looks hard to
align the fine threaded bolts) or do I just install a new
gear reduction starter while the thing is out and all the
associated bits and pieces are out…–
The original message included these comments:

Shortened both solenoid heavy contacts.
The solenoid is now out of play.
applied 12V to the top contact where normally the thick wire coming
from the battery resides.
The starter motor run fine, no problem
Thus there Must be some sort of insulation between the lower solenoid
bolt and the starter motor itself.
I am curious what you will find.

–
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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28

I need to know…what was the cure in the end?!

I have a similar problem and can’t fix. Your thread appears to be the same symptoms

29

I wonder if anyone else reads for several minutes before noting that the thread is 6 years old. Oh well.

Philip - Looks like Chris may not be active on the new Forum so the end of his tale is out there with Pollyanna and Coronet Blue.

You might describe what you have experienced and what you have done so far then let the experts start with fresh eyes on your problem. You might also consider starting a new thread to keep things clearer.

30

I also realized that the thread was 6 years old, but helped a friend with a somewhat similar problem. found a lose nut on the 12 volt bar behind the voltage regulator. Rust between the contracts. Cleaned and lugs and tightened nut and everything was fine. Rust between the contracts could reduce voltage, depending on the last bounce.

31

I read all the way through, and did indeed realise how old the thread was…it was such a good thread I was hoping there was a conclusion without reinventing the wheel!

That’s the point of the archive isn’t it? I was hoping that some owners keep their cars more than a few years. I have owned my 350SL for 17 years and would respond to an old thread

1 Like
32

With a Moto Guzzi and a Ducati in his garage, Chris was pushing electrical karma way beyond reasonable limits and the poor Jag suffered.

1 Like
33

I have a Triumph and a Ducati - I’m screwed

1 Like
34

Philip;
I was one of the posters that responded to Chris in June of 2012. My Dad bought the car in 1973 and and I purchased it from his estate in 1992.
My response to Chris suggested the ‘starter relay’ might be at fault as I had had a similar event several years earlier. Was on a drive, stopped for a bit and upon attempted restart nothing but a faint click when I turned the key and as I remember if I repeatedly tried the click was absent. I let it sit for 20 to 30 minuets and then tried it and started and I drove it home, did some research and ordered a starter relay and have not had the problem again.
I don’t know what your car problem is as you don’t describe it but as Geo (Ahwahnee) suggested give the group a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Regards, Joel.

35

Sometimes it’s a bit of a shocker when you see a post from a friend whose passed away, had that happen this morning with Joel (Denison, Tx).
Cheers,
LLynn

1 Like
36

Folks,
I worked in large electric motor repair for years. YES! This find by the original poster would have been the answer. Bad connections can signal they are carrying the correct voltage, but it is the current that produces the work. So, I nice clean connection, but a loose nut would give a correct indication of voltage, but the current would not be sufficient to turn the crank!
Ron