[E-Type] Differential rebuild. I need assistance

Hello All,

I am rebuilding my differential on my 3.8 Series 1. The shop
manual shows a special tool for setting the dial gauge to set the
pinion shims. I do not have the stepped block that is shown.

So, my question is: How do I set the pinion depth ?

Thanks for you help, James

James Douglas
James@8bells.com

63 Coupe (888373)–
James@8bells.com
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Hello James,

You asked about measuring the pinion depth. It cane be done with
some equipment which you can make.

It will help in understanding my explanation if you look at a
drawing of the pinion setting distances in a Jaguar Workshop
Manual. For example Fig.33 on page H.21 of the Jaguar Service
Manual, publication E/123/8. This drawing shows a point
representing the centre of the crown wheel. It is labelled “CL
GEAR” An imaginary line drawn through the centres of the main
bearings which carry the differential are also centred here.
Using the CL Gear as the centre point, draw a circle 3.265 inches
diameter. This is the bearing diameter and the circle represents
the bore in the sides of the diff in which these bearings are
clamped.

Now, imagine the differential was standing on the pinion input
flange. What you call the “Pinion Depth” is the vertical
distance from the top of the pinion to the CL Gear. The Workshop
Manual shows this as dimension B which is called the Zero Cone
Setting. It should be 2.625" + or - the correction engraved on
the end of your pinion. Half the bearing diameter is 1.6325".
Therefore, the lowest point in the bearing bore is 2.625" -
1.6325" + or - correction above the end of the pinion. i.e.
0.9925" + or - correction above the end of the pinion.

If you had a piece of 1" square section steel bar ground to a
precise thickness of 0.9925" and rested it on the end of the
pinion it would be at almost exactly the same height as the
bottom of the bearing bore.

If you then set up a dial gauge clamped to another piece of
ground material (such as a 1" x 1" angle) and were able slide it
across the top of the ground steel bar you could compare the
readings on the top of the ground bar and the lowest point in the
bore. This enables you to calculate the actual Pinion Depth.
When I do this measurement I take a number of readings with the
pinion at various positions. The pinion bearings have to be set
with no clearance, so I do this measurement with no spacer
between the inner and outer pinion bearings.

This measurement job is pretty tricky. I found it helped to
drill a hole horizontally through the ground bar above the centre
of the pinion and the put a bolt in the hole. I steady the bar
with this as I slide the dial gauge holder across the bore to get
a comparative reading.

I have set up two diffs this way. The results have been very
good judging by the silent running of the diffs. The job can be
satisfying, but you need patience.

Clive Arnold
Brisbane, Australia
65 FHC, 1E20761-------Original Message -----
From: james@8bells.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: [E-Type] Differential rebuild. I need assistance

Hello All,

I am rebuilding my differential on my 3.8 Series 1. The shop
manual shows a special tool for setting the dial gauge to set
the
pinion shims. I do not have the stepped block that is shown.

So, my question is: How do I set the pinion depth ?

Thanks for you help, James

James Douglas

During and after this process, a contact-pattern check using Dykes Blue is
essential. Just make sure that you turn the pinion in the forward direction
to get an accurate representation of heel and toe loading…and always,
always use a torque wrench on everything throughout the operation.
Regards,
michael----- Original Message -----
From: “Clive Arnold” clivea@tpg.com.au
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org; james@8bells.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Differential rebuild. I need assistance

Hello James,

You asked about measuring the pinion depth. It cane be done with
some equipment which you can make.

It will help in understanding my explanation if you look at a
drawing of the pinion setting distances in a Jaguar Workshop
Manual. For example Fig.33 on page H.21 of the Jaguar Service
Manual, publication E/123/8. This drawing shows a point
representing the centre of the crown wheel. It is labelled “CL
GEAR” An imaginary line drawn through the centres of the main
bearings which carry the differential are also centred here.
Using the CL Gear as the centre point, draw a circle 3.265 inches
diameter. This is the bearing diameter and the circle represents
the bore in the sides of the diff in which these bearings are
clamped.

Now, imagine the differential was standing on the pinion input
flange. What you call the “Pinion Depth” is the vertical
distance from the top of the pinion to the CL Gear. The Workshop
Manual shows this as dimension B which is called the Zero Cone
Setting. It should be 2.625" + or - the correction engraved on
the end of your pinion. Half the bearing diameter is 1.6325".
Therefore, the lowest point in the bearing bore is 2.625" -
1.6325" + or - correction above the end of the pinion. i.e.
0.9925" + or - correction above the end of the pinion.

If you had a piece of 1" square section steel bar ground to a
precise thickness of 0.9925" and rested it on the end of the
pinion it would be at almost exactly the same height as the
bottom of the bearing bore.

If you then set up a dial gauge clamped to another piece of
ground material (such as a 1" x 1" angle) and were able slide it
across the top of the ground steel bar you could compare the
readings on the top of the ground bar and the lowest point in the
bore. This enables you to calculate the actual Pinion Depth.
When I do this measurement I take a number of readings with the
pinion at various positions. The pinion bearings have to be set
with no clearance, so I do this measurement with no spacer
between the inner and outer pinion bearings.

This measurement job is pretty tricky. I found it helped to
drill a hole horizontally through the ground bar above the centre
of the pinion and the put a bolt in the hole. I steady the bar
with this as I slide the dial gauge holder across the bore to get
a comparative reading.

I have set up two diffs this way. The results have been very
good judging by the silent running of the diffs. The job can be
satisfying, but you need patience.

Clive Arnold
Brisbane, Australia
65 FHC, 1E20761

-------Original Message -----
From: james@8bells.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: [E-Type] Differential rebuild. I need assistance

Hello All,

I am rebuilding my differential on my 3.8 Series 1. The shop
manual shows a special tool for setting the dial gauge to set
the
pinion shims. I do not have the stepped block that is shown.

So, my question is: How do I set the pinion depth ?

Thanks for you help, James

James Douglas

In reply to a message from Michael sent Tue 6 Aug 2002:

Hello All,

Sometimes we tend to complicate things. Unless you are changing
the the ring and pinion there is no need to mess with the depth
settings. Just measure the old shim and replace it with a new one
that comes in your rebuild kit. Same goes for the carrier shims
make a note as to the stack height of each side as well as total
combined stack height ( needed for new gears only ). These are
Dana 44 Rears and are very accurate. Gears are marked on the
pinion face with a zero or plus and minus number example: +3.
These plus and minus numbers are used to calculate a new shim
size base on what you have. Plus moves the pinion away
substracting shim thickness… minus does the opposite. Early
early Jag rears had the carrier shims located at the axle
flanges, the same stack measuring applies here. Most importantly
is a good press and tools to get carrier bearings off.

Bearings are very accurate and rarely will changing a bearing
change pinion depth and side bearing preload.

Have fun,

Paul

http://www.5speeds.com–
Paul Cangialosi
Boca Raton, FL, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

In reply to a message from 5_Speeds sent Wed 7 Aug 2002:

Thanks to all for your comments.

Clive, Thanks for taking the time for the detailed explanation.

I am going to make the parts that Clive talked about in his
reply. I will take some photos and when I am done I will let
everyone know how it turned out.

Paul, normally I would agree with you. However, this car sat for
10+ years. I purchased it dead and have never run the rear end.
So, I have no way of knowing for sure that the original clearance
was correct.

Since I do not want to tear the thing out again, I think that it
would be prudent to spend the time to check it. BTW� I am
getting close to the point of needing a transmission. I talked
to you 3 years ago when you were just starting to have bell
housings available. I will call soon to talk about an order.

Thanks again all,

James Douglas
San Francisco.
63 Coupe (888373)–
The original message included these comments:

Sometimes we tend to complicate things. Unless you are changing
the the ring and pinion there is no need to mess with the depth
settings. Just measure the old shim and replace it with a new one


James@8bells.com
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

If bearings are accurate then why is it not a matter of adding or
subtracting shims according to the numbers stamped? eg, if the old pinion
and the new pinion were both stamped -3, then would the change be zero and
therfore the same shim thickness should be used?

Bill B

flange. What you call the “Pinion Depth” is the vertical
distance from the top of the pinion to the CL Gear. The Workshop
Manual shows this as dimension B which is called the Zero Cone
Setting. It should be 2.625" + or - the correction engraved on
the end of your pinion. Half the bearing diameter is 1.6325".
Therefore, the lowest point in the bearing bore is 2.625" -
1.6325" + or - correction above the end of the pinion. i.e.
0.9925" + or - correction above the end of the pinion.

If you had a piece of 1" square section steel bar ground to a
precise thickness of 0.9925" and rested it on the end of the
pinion it would be at almost exactly the same height as the
bottom of the bearing bore.

If you then set up a dial gauge clamped to another piece of
ground material (such as a 1" x 1" angle) and were able slide it
across the top of the ground steel bar you could compare the
readings on the top of the ground bar and the lowest point in the
bore. This enables you to calculate the actual Pinion Depth.
When I do this measurement I take a number of readings with the
pinion at various positions. The pinion bearings have to be set
with no clearance, so I do this measurement with no spacer
between the inner and outer pinion bearings.

This measurement job is pretty tricky. I found it helped to
drill a hole horizontally through the ground bar above the centre
of the pinion and the put a bolt in the hole. I steady the bar
with this as I slide the dial gauge holder across the bore to get
a comparative reading.

I have set up two diffs this way. The results have been very
good judging by the silent running of the diffs. The job can be
satisfying, but you need patience.

Clive Arnold
Brisbane, Australia
65 FHC, 1E20761

66 S1 OTS
e mail @Bill-B

Bill B asked:

If bearings are accurate then why is it not a matter of adding
or
subtracting shims according to the numbers stamped? eg, if the
old pinion
and the new pinion were both stamped -3, then would the change
be zero and
therefore the same shim thickness should be used?

Clive Arnold comments:

If a pinion was correctly set and is removed and replaced, then
there should be no reason to vary the thickness of the pinion
height setting shims. Ditto if a new crown wheel and pinion is
installed and the new pinion happens to have the same zero cone
offset figure engraved as the previous pinion.----- Original Message -----
From: “Bill Bilotti” etype66s1@cox.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Question: Re: [E-Type] Differential rebuild. I need
assistance

If bearings are accurate then why is it not a matter of adding
or
subtracting shims according to the numbers stamped? eg, if the
old pinion
and the new pinion were both stamped -3, then would the change
be zero and
therfore the same shim thickness should be used?

Bill B

In reply to a message from Clive Arnold sent Thu 8 Aug 2002:

Regardless if the rear sat for 10 or 20 years there is no need to
alter shims. If you are suspect that for some reason the rear
was set up WRONG here is what to do.

Before pulling it apart pattern check the gearset with its
existing set up. That simple. If the DYE pattern matches the
current WEAR pattern, then don’t mess with it. Even if you decide
to recalculate new shim sizes, altering the height of the pinion
on a gearset that has been run in will cause more noise and more
problems. So before you invest in tools do this simple check.

Sometimes the hardest rears to do are ones with used swapped out
gear sets that were dismantled with no shims. Regardless of
setting ‘‘book heights’’ you still have to match the old wear
pattern.–
Paul Cangialosi
Boca Raton, FL, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–