[E-Type] FHC question

E-Type
1

Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the cockpit
when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: “How dare you drive that
car in the rain!!”

Chris Rogers

2

NO…that’s why I have coupes instead of convertibles.

Wade Pollard
70 FHC
72 2+2
94 XJ6
88 XJ6

3

When I have driven in the rain, I would get a few drips at the
top front corners of the doors, where the complex rubber
seal and funny catch basin don’t quite do the trick. Other
than that, not much – not enough to dampen the carpet

Jerry '64 FHC (new seals and fitting).

Jerry Mouton mailto:@mouton Laissez les bons temps
rouler!----- Original Message -----
From: “Christian E. Rogers” chrisrog@mindspring.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:29 PM
Subject: [E-Type] FHC question

Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the
cockpit
when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: “How dare you drive
that
car in the rain!!”

Chris Rogers

4

Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today, aircleaner, vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and allowed them to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great results. It seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal surfaces that are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for coating till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

5

At 9:29 PM -0500 1/29/01, Christian E. Rogers wrote:

Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the cockpit
when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: “How dare you drive that
car in the rain!!”

Chris Rogers
My 64 FHC stays bone dry in the heaviest of rains. The coupes seem to be
more popular in Great Britain because of the weather. I also prefer the FHC
because it is quite snug during the winter and will accelerate and go
slightly faster than an OTS due to its aerodynamics.
Bobs 64 3.8L FHC, P4000 Pirellis 205/70s, 6" Daytons.
P.S. The featured E-type FHC in the February issue of Classic Jaguar
Monthly is LHD and does not have tinted windows, but is equpped with chrome
wire wheels.

6

Of course not–they can only put the windiws down–we drive with the top
down in the rain:):)-----Original Message-----
From: Christian E. Rogers chrisrog@mindspring.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:43 PM
Subject: [E-Type] FHC question

Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the cockpit
when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: “How dare you drive
that
car in the rain!!”

Chris Rogers

7

Do you have a day job???:)-----Original Message-----
From: Eric MaLossi emalossi@flash.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 12:59 AM
Subject: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today, aircleaner,
vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and allowed them
to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great results. It seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal surfaces that
are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for coating
till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

8

Vacuum canister, heater box, mudguards and air filter canister
in gloss black look great. Brake booster in silver also looks
good, but I must warn that with the thickness of powder coat it
is difficult to re-close the booster. I also did the blanking
plates on the firewall and the brake fluid bottles silver. In
all cases I was very pleased with the appearance.

Of course it won’t suit everybody , but there are no technical
problems on large flat surfaces like the mudguards.

Regards
Clive Arnold----- Original Message -----
From: “Eric MaLossi” emalossi@flash.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:47 PM
Subject: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today,
aircleaner, vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to
get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and
allowed them to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great
results. It seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that
it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal
surfaces that are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and
been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for
coating till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

9

Water will always come into an OTS. Water should not come into FHC’s at all.

Daniel-----Original Message-----
From: Christian E. Rogers [mailto:chrisrog@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:30 PM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [E-Type] FHC question

Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the cockpit
when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: “How dare you drive that
car in the rain!!”

Chris Rogers

10

Why do you ask, are you interested in hiring someone with my many and varied
talents?

Do you have a day job???:)-----Original Message-----
From: Eric MaLossi <@Eric_MaLossi>
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 12:59 AM
Subject: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today, aircleaner,
vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and allowed them
to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great results. It seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal surfaces that
are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for coating
till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

11

I guess I’m the odd one out here. My FHC would fill the driver’s side floor
with an inch of water when it rained. Now that I’ve taken the car completely
apart (see http://www.the reale.com/jaguars.html) I’m still mystified as to
where it leaked in from.

Maybe when it’s finished and I’ve spent$X0,000 on it, I’ll be able to find
the fault, strip it back down and fix it.

Cheers,
Eric Scott Williams
66fhc w/ Classic Jaguar flywheel (I gave in)

In a message dated 1/29/01 8:21:39 PM, chrisrog@mindspring.com writes:

<< Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the cockpit

when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: "How dare you drive that

car in the rain!!"

Chris Rogers >>

12

My FHC is a California car, as is yours. The weather is your part of the
world is hell on rubber seals. All the rubber on my car has petrified. The
door seals have to be soft and squishy in that double curve by your knee. If
not, water will run directly into the cabin.

Get new seals and take the time to fit them properly.

Daniel-----Original Message-----
From: EScott2U@aol.com [mailto:EScott2U@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:42 AM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] FHC question

I guess I’m the odd one out here. My FHC would fill the driver’s side floor

with an inch of water when it rained. Now that I’ve taken the car
completely
apart (see http://www.the reale.com/jaguars.html) I’m still mystified as to
where it leaked in from.

Maybe when it’s finished and I’ve spent$X0,000 on it, I’ll be able to find
the fault, strip it back down and fix it.

Cheers,
Eric Scott Williams
66fhc w/ Classic Jaguar flywheel (I gave in)

In a message dated 1/29/01 8:21:39 PM, chrisrog@mindspring.com writes:

<< Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the
cockpit

when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: "How dare you drive that

car in the rain!!"

Chris Rogers >>

13

True, very true - the amount of water in the car is in ivnverse proportion
to the speed at which you drive. However, you do need to “hunker down” a b-----Original Message-----
From: tom felts [mailto:tfelts@prodigy.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 2:14 AM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] FHC question

Of course not–they can only put the windiws down–we drive with the top
down in the rain:):slight_smile:
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian E. Rogers chrisrog@mindspring.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org e-type@jag-lovers.org
Date: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:43 PM
Subject: [E-Type] FHC question

Do you guys that drive the coupes get as much water coming into the cockpit
when it rains as I do into my OTS?

I suspect the standard response I will get here is: “How dare you drive
that
car in the rain!!”

Chris Rogers

14

Hi Eric,
A guy a now , running his own powder coating business left the bodywork of his
own car(spitfire) to the painters and only powder coated the smaller parts cos
he couldn’t get the bigger panels right.Says enough i think.
He powder coated my complete IRS which is A1 now. (pictures are available)
But you’re right surfaces which are strongly pitted will not come out perfect.
But in the end yourself will be the judge of that.
Ron 66+2 /NL

Eric MaLossi wrote:> Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today, aircleaner, vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and allowed them to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great results. It seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal surfaces that are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for coating till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

15

Eric,

Over time I have had
pretty much every “black painted” part on the car powder coated.
Once you pay the setup base cost, the additional cost of another
little bracket is minimal, so I stripped off everything I could
find and sent the whole lot in (took me two batches).

I had the same experience as quoted – heater, air canister,
rear suspension parts, half shafts, various mountings, anti-roll bar,
mud shields by front wheels, reservac tank, almost everything was
great. There was some warping of the air canister and mudguards,
but they bent back into shape very easily

Aluminum bottom panels under the brake bottles and oil filter
warped and had noticeable craters all over. I can’t say if that
it was material, poor cleaning, or what. Since you can’t see the
finish of these parts very well anyway, I just left them and
they are pretty satisfactory. They took some careful rebending, as
they warped more than steel parts.

Half shaft bearing mounts were
coated internally and it was a real bear getting those clean and still
to spec. That coating is rock-hard. A risk I was told of by my
machinists is that as you clean out holes, the surface can crack
off a wide area around your work if you’re not careful,
eliminating protection and looking crappy. I was lucky. I should have
taken it back and had them do it over, but that entails additional risk
and time, so I just fixed it myself.

OTOH, it can be scratched pretty easily, as some minor cleaning
on the heater (careless) raised scratches more than I would have
expected. Polish and wax cleaned them up pretty well.

There was discussion a year or more ago about the black finish on the
parts mentioned. Gloss makes them look too flashy and not as they came
from the factory. Mine are 60% gloss finish, and they look pretty much
just like the originals. Coaters can give you any amount of flatness
you want, you might consider a semi-gloss finish of some kind.

I highly recommend powder coating, but you have to be absolutely sure
that all the mounting holes in machined parts are completely masked
– some supervision may be required depending on the vendor. My guy is
a car collector and E Type owner, and his guys still missed a few key
places even after I carefully pointed them out. I’d try a written list with
diagrams next time I did it.

Jerry

'64 FHC

Jerry Mouton mailto:@mouton Laissez les bons temps
rouler!----- Original Message -----
From: “Eric MaLossi” emalossi@flash.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:47 PM
Subject: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today, aircleaner,
vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and allowed them
to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great results. It
seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal surfaces that
are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for coating
till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

16

Oh, another thing (reminded by a later post) the heater screen
ring was rusty and pitted – naturally the blasting and coating
did not fill those pits, and they look bigger than before. Existing
surface problems will still remain, maybe look worse.

The pits in the aluminum undershields were not from surface
condition, but were coating defects, and this is another source of
pitting powder coat surface.

Jerry

Jerry Mouton mailto:@mouton Laissez les bons temps
rouler!----- Original Message -----
From: “Eric MaLossi” emalossi@flash.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:47 PM
Subject: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Ahh, another day, and another 25 posts from that MaLossi guy.

I brought in a bunch of stuff to the sandblaster’s today, aircleaner,
vacuum
canister, heater box, etc… I was originally just going to get them
blasted and then paint them, but was feeling spontaneous and allowed them
to
talk me into Powdercoat.

I’ve done bike frames and such in this finish with great results. It
seems
to suck up nice and tight to tubing. However, I’ve heard that it doesn’t
give very nice results on large flat surfaces or old metal surfaces that
are
less then perfect (slight pitting).

Has anyone out there used this on their larger components and been pleased
with the results? I don’t think they’ll be sending them in for coating
till
the end of the week so I could still abort it.

Thanks
Eric MaLossi
Austin, TX
64 3.8 OTS

17

One place that you might not have thought of is the gaskets around the pedal
boxes and the blank cover plates. I used some gaskets from one vendor that
feel like they are cut out of sheet rubber. They squirm out from under the
plates and boxes and you get all kinds of leaks. I discovered this during a
sudden shower last summer.

Before this summer I am going to make new gaskets out of fiber gasket
material and use some gasket sealant.

George Cohn
'70 OTS-----Original Message-----
From: EScott2U@aol.com [mailto:EScott2U@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:42 AM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] FHC question

I guess I’m the odd one out here. My FHC would fill the driver’s side floor

with an inch of water when it rained. Now that I’ve taken the car
completely
apart (see http://www.the reale.com/jaguars.html) I’m still mystified as to
where it leaked in from.

18

Hi Jerry,
Powder coating is processed in an oven at a temp of around 140deg C, so
distortion from heat is unlikely to be a problem. What is more of a problem
is the method used in the cleaning/ de-rusting treatment. If sand or shot
blasting is used for cleaning, lots of distortion can occur particularly in
over enthusiastic hands, but alloy panels can be problematic. Media / bead
blasting is much kinder to thin metal but it is not good at removing rust.
Chemical cleaning is good for removing rust but leaves pitting and the
powder is not very good at filling imperfections.

On my car the ‘black parts’ ie heater, air canister etc I painted using
celullose paint as you can fill and rub flat hiding imperfections, and on
the rear subframe I used black Hammerite Smooth ( the non hammered variety )
recently mentioned on this list.

When you bolt parts together following painting, cracking will always occur,
I allow for this by dipping the bolt into a tub of body wax and following
tightening wip off the surplus and you have sealed all the cracks from
moisture penetration.

On the front suspension components including wish bones I had them chrome
plated but not polished, which gives a matt finish.The finish is almost the
same as the original cad plating but has a greatly improved corrosion
resistance.

Regards
David Tinker. Wales UK----- Original Message -----
From: “Jerry Mouton” jerry@moutons.org
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Eric,

Over time I have had
pretty much every “black painted” part on the car powder coated.
Once you pay the setup base cost, the additional cost of another
little bracket is minimal, so I stripped off everything I could
find and sent the whole lot in (took me two batches).

I had the same experience as quoted – heater, air canister,
rear suspension parts, half shafts, various mountings, anti-roll bar,
mud shields by front wheels, reservac tank, almost everything was
great. There was some warping of the air canister and mudguards,
but they bent back into shape very easily

Aluminum bottom panels under the brake bottles and oil filter
warped and had noticeable craters all over. I can’t say if that
it was material, poor cleaning, or what. Since you can’t see the
finish of these parts very well anyway, I just left them and
they are pretty satisfactory. They took some careful rebending, as
they warped more than steel parts.

Half shaft bearing mounts were
coated internally and it was a real bear getting those clean and still
to spec. That coating is rock-hard. A risk I was told of by my
machinists is that as you clean out holes, the surface can crack
off a wide area around your work if you’re not careful,
eliminating protection and looking crappy. I was lucky. I should have
taken it back and had them do it over, but that entails additional risk
and time, so I just fixed it myself.

OTOH, it can be scratched pretty easily, as some minor cleaning
on the heater (careless) raised scratches more than I would have
expected. Polish and wax cleaned them up pretty well.

There was discussion a year or more ago about the black finish on the
parts mentioned. Gloss makes them look too flashy and not as they came
from the factory. Mine are 60% gloss finish, and they look pretty much
just like the originals. Coaters can give you any amount of flatness
you want, you might consider a semi-gloss finish of some kind.

I highly recommend powder coating, but you have to be absolutely sure
that all the mounting holes in machined parts are completely masked
– some supervision may be required depending on the vendor. My guy is
a car collector and E Type owner, and his guys still missed a few key
places even after I carefully pointed them out. I’d try a written list
with
diagrams next time I did it.

Jerry

'64 FHC

Jerry Mouton mailto:jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps
rouler!

19

David,

I can just report what I saw, and there was some distortion
on all thin flat parts from both vendors I used, and I would
judge it to be an overall effect rather than localized as
I would expect from careless blasting.

The cracking I referred to was not as you would expect
from normal paint, more like what occurs when you bite into
an Eskimo pie (ice cream bar with hard chocolate crust):
the coating cracks and large areas of the coating separate and
flake off.

Your finish sounds great – and real english paint, too!

Jerry Mouton mailto:@mouton Laissez les bons temps
rouler!----- Original Message -----
From: “David Tinker” david.tinker@virgin.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Hi Jerry,
Powder coating is processed in an oven at a temp of around 140deg C, so
distortion from heat is unlikely to be a problem. What is more of a
problem
is the method used in the cleaning/ de-rusting treatment. If sand or shot
blasting is used for cleaning, lots of distortion can occur particularly
in
over enthusiastic hands, but alloy panels can be problematic. Media / bead
blasting is much kinder to thin metal but it is not good at removing rust.
Chemical cleaning is good for removing rust but leaves pitting and the
powder is not very good at filling imperfections.

On my car the ‘black parts’ ie heater, air canister etc I painted using
celullose paint as you can fill and rub flat hiding imperfections, and on
the rear subframe I used black Hammerite Smooth ( the non hammered
variety )
recently mentioned on this list.

When you bolt parts together following painting, cracking will always
occur,
I allow for this by dipping the bolt into a tub of body wax and following
tightening wip off the surplus and you have sealed all the cracks from
moisture penetration.

On the front suspension components including wish bones I had them chrome
plated but not polished, which gives a matt finish.The finish is almost
the
same as the original cad plating but has a greatly improved corrosion
resistance.

Regards
David Tinker. Wales UK
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jerry Mouton” <@mouton>
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Powder Coating stuff

Eric,

Over time I have had
pretty much every “black painted” part on the car powder coated.
Once you pay the setup base cost, the additional cost of another
little bracket is minimal, so I stripped off everything I could
find and sent the whole lot in (took me two batches).

I had the same experience as quoted – heater, air canister,
rear suspension parts, half shafts, various mountings, anti-roll bar,
mud shields by front wheels, reservac tank, almost everything was
great. There was some warping of the air canister and mudguards,
but they bent back into shape very easily

Aluminum bottom panels under the brake bottles and oil filter
warped and had noticeable craters all over. I can’t say if that
it was material, poor cleaning, or what. Since you can’t see the
finish of these parts very well anyway, I just left them and
they are pretty satisfactory. They took some careful rebending, as
they warped more than steel parts.

Half shaft bearing mounts were
coated internally and it was a real bear getting those clean and still
to spec. That coating is rock-hard. A risk I was told of by my
machinists is that as you clean out holes, the surface can crack
off a wide area around your work if you’re not careful,
eliminating protection and looking crappy. I was lucky. I should have
taken it back and had them do it over, but that entails additional risk
and time, so I just fixed it myself.

OTOH, it can be scratched pretty easily, as some minor cleaning
on the heater (careless) raised scratches more than I would have
expected. Polish and wax cleaned them up pretty well.

There was discussion a year or more ago about the black finish on the
parts mentioned. Gloss makes them look too flashy and not as they came
from the factory. Mine are 60% gloss finish, and they look pretty much
just like the originals. Coaters can give you any amount of flatness
you want, you might consider a semi-gloss finish of some kind.

I highly recommend powder coating, but you have to be absolutely sure
that all the mounting holes in machined parts are completely masked
– some supervision may be required depending on the vendor. My guy is
a car collector and E Type owner, and his guys still missed a few key
places even after I carefully pointed them out. I’d try a written list
with
diagrams next time I did it.

Jerry

'64 FHC

Jerry Mouton mailto:@mouton Laissez les bons temps
rouler!

20

Eric:
My FHC would fill the driver’s side floor with an inch of water when it
rained._______________________________________________________
There are two metal deflectors in each door (fore and aft). If these are
missing or corroded and the plastic sheeting missing from the door interior,
water will pass to the inside over the sill rather than exiting to the
outside. I didn’t believe the deflectors played a major part in drainage as
you can see the exit holes and they drain over a cutout in the door frame
gasket. However, replacing these deflectors (finally found them at Classic
Jag) cured the door leaks.

Joe
66FHC