[E-Type] Gearbox problem

Since a recent rebuild, the gearbox on my S2 1970 OTS jumps out of
3rd gear under engine braking. In other respects, no problems. Have
checked the clearance of the gear lever, and removing the gaiters
does not help. Any advice welcome. Cheers. Ross.–
Ross, 1970 S2 E Type
Javea, Spain
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In reply to a message from RDO sent Sun 27 Oct 2013:

Sounds like an end float problem on 3rd gear, were all gear end
floats checked for tolerance?–
The original message included these comments:

Since a recent rebuild, the gearbox on my S2 1970 OTS jumps out of
3rd gear under engine braking. In other respects, no problems. Have


850225/679,1E21003,2W2001BW,JNAEY3AC100218,SAJNV4841KC156072
ROSANNA, Australia
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In reply to a message from RDO sent Sun 27 Oct 2013:

My gearbox jumped out of 1st gear on deceleration before I rebuilt
it the first time. Worn bearings and synchro rings. Cured the 1st
gear problem but created another. Shortly after the rebuild the
shift lever would surge forward in third gear on acceleration and
backward on deceleration, just not enough to pop it into neutral as
in your case. I’ve rebuilt the gearbox a second time. The
replacement front ball bearing was shot. Feedback from this forum
is the only reliable replacement for the front bearing is an NOS or
good original. I also found the original spigot bearing in the
crankshaft quite worn. I admit to having not replaced it the first
time. A silly oversight, since it’s an inexpensive item that’s easy
to replace once the engine is separated from the gearbox. I
suspect - can’t confirm since I’ve yet to get the car back on the
road - that play in the constant pinion shaft deflected the
mainshaft sufficiently to defeat the inertia in the 3/4
synchroniser hub detents. I shimmed up the detent springs to spec
for good measure but expect the replacement front gearbox bearing
and new spigot bearing will stabilise the constant pinion shaft and
cure the problem. Since your problem manifested itself only after
the rebuild the previous post about excessive gear float is also a
possibility. I’m no gearbox expert so this is FWIW. Unless you’ve
got a new issue in the striking gear in the lid it sounds like a
problem that might require another rebuild.–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Nick S. sent Sun 27 Oct 2013:

Hi Nick,

I’m planning on rebuilding my GB soon and adding a OD (I have a
2+2).

I read many post of you regarding GB and rebuild and your
knowledge, despite sayin’ you’re no expert.

Perhaps any chance of posting any pictures or do’s and dont’s of
rebuilding? Would be greatly appriciated.

Many thanks,
Richard–
The original message included these comments:

My gearbox jumped out of 1st gear on deceleration before I rebuilt
it the first time. Worn bearings and synchro rings. Cured the 1st
possibility. I’m no gearbox expert so this is FWIW. Unless you’ve
got a new issue in the striking gear in the lid it sounds like a
problem that might require another rebuild.


E-type Series II RHD 2+2 1969 http://www.richardbrand.nl
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In reply to a message from Nick S. sent Sun 27 Oct 2013:

Shift lever moving as much as you say is a sure indication of
excessive gear end float.–
The original message included these comments:

My gearbox jumped out of 1st gear on deceleration before I rebuilt
it the first time. Worn bearings and synchro rings. Cured the 1st
gear problem but created another. Shortly after the rebuild the
shift lever would surge forward in third gear on acceleration and
backward on deceleration, just not enough to pop it into neutral as


850225/679,1E21003,2W2001BW,JNAEY3AC100218,SAJNV4841KC156072
ROSANNA, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from kingrichard sent Mon 28 Oct 2013:

Any knowledge I have is from the forum collective, Richard, and it
is by no means exhaustive. A number of the more experienced ones in
here also provided advice by email and telephone while I progressed
with the second rebuild. Best to ask questions in here as you go
along.

There are a few things I might add to the thread linked below. Do
the rebuild in a completely clean, uncluttered area. Wrap a cloth
rag around the synchro hub assemblies to disassemble them - the
springs, balls and plungers will rip right through a shop towel and
scatter themselves all over your work area. If you’re going to
replace the layshaft you don’t need to make a dummy shaft, just use
the old layshaft instead. There have been a number of posts on
inferior replacement parts, so something to watch out for. All I
can think of at the moment - perhaps some others can chime in on
Do’s and Dont’s. Nick.

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/av.php?1593330n11--
The original message included these comments:

Perhaps any chance of posting any pictures or do’s and dont’s of
rebuilding? Would be greatly appriciated.


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from kingrichard sent Mon 28 Oct 2013:

Thanks, gents, for your input. I will pass your comments to the
mechanic as soon as I can persuade him to return to the scene.
Watch this space.–
The original message included these comments:

My gearbox jumped out of 1st gear on deceleration before I rebuilt
it the first time. Worn bearings and synchro rings. Cured the 1st


Ross, 1970 S2 E Type
Javea, Spain
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from Norman LUTZ sent Mon 28 Oct 2013:

That’s certainly what I suspected too, Norman, thinking maybe I
didn’t get the 3rd gear retaining nut torqued down sufficiently.
First thing I checked was end float and it checked out at .006’’,
which is just about bang on, so it had to be something else.

The gearbox stayed in gear - ie third gear stayed meshed with its
mate in the cluster gear - but the shifter was moving around. It
wasn’t the gears moving back and forth but the synchro operating
sleeve. Press down on the accelerator and the torque from the
engine played on the sloppy constant pinion shaft which deflected
the mainshaft upward, causing the 3/4 synchro sleeve to break free
from its detents and slide back on its hub beyond its normal travel
range. Let off on the gas, the shafts realigned and the 3/4 synchro
sleeve eased back in place. The 1/2 synchroniser was unaffected
because it is farther back on the mainshaft and subjected to much
less deflection. So my logic goes, in any event.–
The original message included these comments:

Shift lever moving as much as you say is a sure indication of
excessive gear end float.


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from RDO sent Mon 28 Oct 2013:

Further investigation of the problem shows that the car also jumps
out of 1st gear on engine braking - not really a problem in driving
the car. So now we have both 1st & 3rd gear behaving identically,
whilst 2nd & 4th are normal. Suggests that drive from the propshaft
end is exerting a directional load on both selector rings, holding
2nd & 4th in but pushing 1st & 3rd out. Any comments welcome.–
The original message included these comments:

Thanks, gents, for your input. I will pass your comments to the
mechanic as soon as I can persuade him to return to the scene.
Watch this space.
Ross, 1970 S2 E Type
Javea, Spain


Ross, 1970 S2 E Type
Javea, Spain
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In reply to a message from RDO sent Fri 6 Dec 2013:

Hi Ross
try removing the center console and driving the car.
I have heard of the shifter boot causing the car to jump out of
gear.
This would be a cheaper fix than a gearbox rebuild. It’s a long
shot, but worth a try.
good luck!
Doug–
69 E type FHC 1R25901, 91 Miata Turbo, Locost 7,
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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In reply to a message from blownmiata91 sent Fri 6 Dec 2013:

On this same line of thought, make sure the transmission mount
is set up properly with the appropriate rubber pieces and that
it doesn’t have the locking pin still in place.
Cheers,
Lynn–
The original message included these comments:

try removing the center console and driving the car.
I have heard of the shifter boot causing the car to jump out of
gear.
This would be a cheaper fix than a gearbox rebuild. It’s a long
shot, but worth a try.


Lynn G.
68/85 ots, 73 2+2, Boise, Id., United States
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In reply to a message from blownmiata91 sent Fri 6 Dec 2013:

Thanks Doug & Lynn for your responses. I have already done as Doug
suggests (because initially the gaiters were preventing correct
engagement of gears)and the gears do now properly engage. The
gearlever moves rearward on deceleration, but only a very small
fingertip pressure is needed to hold it in gear. Most frustrating!I
will check the mounting, Lynn. Cheers.–
The original message included these comments:

try removing the center console and driving the car.
I have heard of the shifter boot causing the car to jump out of
gear.


Ross, 1970 S2 E Type
Javea, Spain
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from RDO sent Tue 10 Dec 2013:

Ross,

You could have a problem with the springs and balls in the
top cover. If the springs are weak or the balls are not
fully engaging the notches in the shift rods they might not
hold the gear selector in place under load. It’s been a
while since I had mine apart, but I remember it being fairly
basic to figure out how it’s supposed to work when you look
at it.–
The original message included these comments:

Thanks Doug & Lynn for your responses. I have already done as Doug
suggests (because initially the gaiters were preventing correct
engagement of gears)and the gears do now properly engage. The
gearlever moves rearward on deceleration, but only a very small
fingertip pressure is needed to hold it in gear. Most frustrating!I
will check the mounting, Lynn. Cheers.


Jack Terrick 66 FHC
Greensburg, PA, United States
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I wouldn’t touch this comment for anything:):):):)---- “Jack T.” jht66e@comcast.net wrote:

=============
In reply to a message from RDO sent Tue 10 Dec 2013:

Ross,

You could have a problem with the springs and balls in the
top cover. If the springs are weak or the balls are not
fully engaging the notches in the shift rods they might not
hold the gear selector in place under load. It’s been a
while since I had mine apart, but I remember it being fairly
basic to figure out how it’s supposed to work when you look
at it.


The original message included these comments:

Thanks Doug & Lynn for your responses. I have already done as Doug
suggests (because initially the gaiters were preventing correct
engagement of gears)and the gears do now properly engage. The
gearlever moves rearward on deceleration, but only a very small
fingertip pressure is needed to hold it in gear. Most frustrating!I
will check the mounting, Lynn. Cheers.


Jack Terrick 66 FHC
Greensburg, PA, United States
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In reply to a message from Jack T. sent Tue 10 Dec 2013:

Thank you Jack. In fact the gearbox on this model ('71) does not
have the springs & detents fitted to the cover - they reside inside
the selector rings - though the cover still has the mountings for
these components. To be honest, I am thinking of adding a
spring/ball to assist in keeping the box in 3rd gear, which will
unfortunately involve machining grooves in the (hardened) shaft.
Watch this space.–
The original message included these comments:

You could have a problem with the springs and balls in the
top cover. If the springs are weak or the balls are not
fully engaging the notches in the shift rods they might not
hold the gear selector in place under load. It’s been a


Ross, 1970 S2 E Type
Javea, Spain
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In reply to a message from RDO sent Sun 15 Dec 2013:

Might work but probably not. And it would be addressing the symptom
rather than the problem. My money’s on worn (or bad aftermarket)
synchros and possibly worn bearings. I think you need a rebuild,
and replace the spigot bearing in the crankshaft while you’re at it.–
The original message included these comments:

these components. To be honest, I am thinking of adding a
spring/ball to assist in keeping the box in 3rd gear, which will
unfortunately involve machining grooves in the (hardened) shaft.
Watch this space.


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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