[E-Type] Grade of gas for E Type?

What grade of gas should I be filling my E Type with?

Sorry, got deluged with a search on ‘‘octane’’ in the
archives, and couldn’t see anything appropriate!–
Julian, '69 2+2 www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41300
Pasadena, United States
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In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

It has been suggested you purchase a service manual for your car–I
will add to that an owners handbook. They will answer almost all of
your questions but as I am typing you need the best (highest
octane) you can buy from a pump! Here unless one ventures to Cam 2
or the airport it is 93 which is --well just OK.–
JCRC SE member JCNA Publications and Authenticity Desk
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Tue 3 May 2011:

George, I have a groaning shelf of manuals books and
documentation, including the owners manual of course! Not
sure why you dont think I have those?

I was hoping for insight on which modern grades are
considered most suitable.–
Julian, '69 2+2 www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41300
Pasadena, United States
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Julian,
In Calif. we have 85, 87, and 89 octane.
Mine won’t run properly on 85, tears (shakes) the engine apart.
It will run ok on 87, but I have never put my wife out on the corner in a miniskirt so I could afford to try 89 octane.
LLoyd

If, by sorcery, any citizen, of whatever rank or station, shall find him, her, or itself in the body, form, or husk of another already bound to these Rules, the Rules governing the actual body, form, or husk inhabited by soul or spirit shall prevail and be binding.
The Book of Rules, II, 412-9-11(d)----- Original Message -----
From: “jjbunn” julian.bunn@caltech.edu
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:07:48 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Grade of gas for E Type?

In reply to a message from George Camp sent Tue 3 May 2011:

George, I have a groaning shelf of manuals books and
documentation, including the owners manual of course! Not
sure why you dont think I have those?

I was hoping for insight on which modern grades are
considered most suitable.

Julian, '69 2+2 www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41300
Pasadena, United States
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In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Get the highest octane at the pump you can get!

Regardless of the current engine compression, all of our gas
now tends to have a lower octane than these cars were built
for originally…

Penny wise pound foolish not to get the highest octane
possible for these cars. IMHO.

I believe that 91 is pretty standard here in California.

Cheers!–
The original message included these comments:

What grade of gas should I be filling my E Type with?


Cove Britton 64 E FHC 59 Mark I 2001 XJR
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In reply to a message from soothsayer1@comcast.net sent Tue 3 May 2011:

I don’t profess to be an expert, but I think I understand
this subject a little. If your car is pinging under any
load, then you need a higher octane. The pinging is from
pre-detonation and can (and will) eventually cause severe
damage to the engine. Ignition timing adjustments can help
to minimize it, but the only safe cure is to eliminate it by
running a higher octane. Oddly enough, the higher octane
fuel has, as I understand it, what I would call an
‘‘explosion inhibitor’’. As the air fuel mixture compresses
in the cylinder, it can actually detonate before it should
and cause extreme pressure in the combustion chamber,
usually resulting in severe damage to the pistons. I can
imagine that blown head gaskets would be a potential result
also. My position is that I don’t drive my E-Type enough to
make the choice to run the highest octane a difficult one.
If that doesn’t help, the an octane booster would be a good
idea until I could find some other reason for the pinging.
This is an interesting subject and I would appreciate any
other input on it.–
The original message included these comments:

In Calif. we have 85, 87, and 89 octane.
Mine won’t run properly on 85, tears (shakes) the engine apart.
It will run ok on 87, but I have never put my wife out on the corner in a miniskirt so I could afford to try 89 octane.
LLoyd


Richard Cunningham 64 FHC 890018 http://my64etype.com
Daphne, AL, United States
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George, your comments arrived before my same answer.
Mike Goodwin & KoolKat
’ 68 OTS E Type W/HT & SUs
Phoenix, AZ USA www.beataz.com----- Original Message -----
From: “George Camp” scjag@juno.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Grade of gas for E Type?

In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

It has been suggested you purchase a service manual for your car–I
will add to that an owners handbook. They will answer almost all of
your questions but as I am typing you need the best (highest
octane) you can buy from a pump! Here unless one ventures to Cam 2
or the airport it is 93 which is --well just OK.

JCRC SE member JCNA Publications and Authenticity Desk
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Julian, I wondered the same thing when I got my 69 2+2.
Read the Operating Maintenance, and Service Handbook 4
times before someone told me it was on page 35 - Routine
Maintenance. But I found this posting on JCNA that
helped more.
http://www.jcna.com/forums/view.php?
Vref=ne18&Vfnum=130&Vthread=1445

Bob–
Carlsbadbob
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In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Julian:

North of the 49th we have four grades of gasoline. Regular,
rated at 87 octane is currently $1.40 CA per litre. 94 rated
octane, which is the top grade a some stations (Chevron) is
the choice for E-Types. Runs about $1.55 CA per litre. The
middle two ratings, 89 and 91 octane are not compatible with
the 4.2 litre, triple SU carbed version.

Not sure if the ratings are comparable with the US, but use
the highest octane rating you can find. Otherwise, fiddle
with carb settings, timing, flex fingers, etc.

Cheers,

Bruce–
The original message included these comments:

What grade of gas should I be filling my E Type with?
Sorry, got deluged with a search on ‘‘octane’’ in the
archives, and couldn’t see anything appropriate!


RB '69 ots, 2005 X-Type ‘Estate’ Burnaby, BC, Canada
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In reply to a message from 1952gmc sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Hey Julian. I would agree and say that the engine needs
the highest octane possible. One of my service manuals
says for 9:1 compression ratio engines 98, octane is
recommended. And for 8:1 compression ratio engines, 94
octane. Also: -8 or -9 at the end of engine number
determines the compression ratio. Hope this is what you
needed to know.–
The original message included these comments:

Get the highest octane at the pump you can get!
Regardless of the current engine compression, all of our gas
now tends to have a lower octane than these cars were built
for originally…

What grade of gas should I be filling my E Type with?


Jarrod–'69 E-type series 2 FHC 4.2L 4 speed
Lewis Center/Ohio, United States
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In reply to a message from Richard Cunningham sent Tue 3 May 2011:

A good explanation, with a small correction: There really
isn’t a condition called ‘‘pre-detonation.’’ There is indeed
pre-ignition, differentiated from detonation (pinging,
pinking, knocking, as synonyms).

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html

That said, at sea level you are dead right: Use the highest
grade possible and most likely a detonation XK engine, at
that level, will need a recurve and a less-aggressive
initial timing. I get away with 91 RON at the altitude I
live at, but juuust barely!–
The original message included these comments:

this subject a little. If your car is pinging under any
load, then you need a higher octane. The pinging is from
pre-detonation and can (and will) eventually cause severe
damage to the engine. Ignition timing adjustments can help
to minimize it, but the only safe cure is to eliminate it by
running a higher octane. Oddly enough, the higher octane
fuel has, as I understand it, what I would call an
‘‘explosion inhibitor’’. As the air fuel mixture compresses
in the cylinder, it can actually detonate before it should
and cause extreme pressure in the combustion chamber,
usually resulting in severe damage to the pistons. I can


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Hi Julian-

Clearly the suggestion that you follow the factory
recommended octane level is not going to work for day to day
driving in California (or for the US), not sure why anyone
would suggest it.

I double checked and yes for California 91 Octane is the
standard highest octane one can obtain at most gas stations,
well below recommended octane levels from the factory.

That said, and more expert posters than I will have their
own input I am sure, but my two cents.

Lower your compression (depending on what you have now).
Electronic ignition.

Both of the above will help-

You can also go to local gas suppliers (not stations) and
get higher octane gas. But expensive and not really worth it
unless you are racing.

My Mark I has electronic ignition and runs well on the 91
octane. I suspect that your 2+2 should also. My E-Type runs
on race gas (110 octane) but it is a race engine and I order
the gas by 50 gallon drums.

Long and short of it, get the highest octane available for
you locally, if you have pinging- adjust the engine to
accept that octane. Your performance is going to be hurt
because of the lower octane levels…but if some Canadian
E-_Type comes down to California and wants to drag
race…they may have a hard time because your car will be
tuned for the local gas…and they won’t be!

Cheers—
The original message included these comments:

What grade of gas should I be filling my E Type with?


Cove Britton 64 E FHC 59 Mark I 2001 XJR
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In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Julian,

Schmeds got it wrong – the top octane (CLC) in California is 91
octane super, which is about equivalent to 96 octane (Research
method). A little lighter than the recommended 98 octane Research,
but good enough. You can get by with 87 if you don’t really drive
the car, but for a few bucks insurance…

My 3.8 is more prone to knock than the 4.2, and with the California
Super it does not knock. Best test is going uphill at full
throttle at about 2800 RPM on a very hot day. If it does not knock
then, you are fine. If it knocks then your combustion chambers
have a lot of carbon in them and/or the engine has been modified to
increase the compression ratio (head skimmed). If it’s carbon you
can generally blow it out by some full throttle high RPM runs.

On the list we determined that a number of our cars which had been
rebuilt were giving a compression ratio of significantly greater
than the original 9:1, and of course they knock even on Super.
It’s possible to check the real ratio using a titrating flask and
oil and a calculator (search the archives for more information).
If you get knocking with California Super, that’s one approach to
check out.

Octane improvers don’t hurt, but they make no real difference in
octane other than psychological. They improve octane, but on the
scale of tenths of an octane number. You won’t need them if the
car is stock. You won’t need them if all you do is drive to the
grocery store.

If you get crazy it’s possible to find street legal 110 CLC octane
gas at some Union 76 stations and some parts stores, And you can
mix with Super to get a higher octane fuel at a sort of reasonable
price. But, you’ll need to Google to find the places, and it’s
completely unnecessary.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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What??? Whud i say?? Idiot!! It’s 87,89, and 91. The 89 is what I run.
LLoyd (darned numberz, where’s a rithmetician when you need one)

If, by sorcery, any citizen, of whatever rank or station, shall find him, her, or itself in the body, form, or husk of another already bound to these Rules, the Rules governing the actual body, form, or husk inhabited by soul or spirit shall prevail and be binding.
The Book of Rules, II, 412-9-11(d)----- Original Message -----
From: “mouton” jerry@moutons.org
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 8:21:48 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Grade of gas for E Type?

In reply to a message from jjbunn sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Julian,

Schmeds got it wrong – the top octane (CLC) in California is 91
octane super, which is about equivalent to 96 octane (Research
method). A little lighter than the recommended 98 octane Research,
but good enough. You can get by with 87 if you don’t really drive
the car, but for a few bucks insurance…


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In reply to a message from 1952gmc sent Tue 3 May 2011:

In no way was it suggested to run octane ratings of 98
and 94, that obviously won’t be feasible. But knowing what
was intended to be run in the engine will help you to
determine what you should run. In Ohio, I just get the
highest octane I can, didn’t look the last time I filled
up, but pretty sure it’s 92 or 93. That being said…I’d
get the button on the right.–
The original message included these comments:

Clearly the suggestion that you follow the factory
recommended octane level is not going to work for day to day
driving in California (or for the US), not sure why anyone
would suggest it.
I double checked and yes for California 91 Octane is the
standard highest octane one can obtain at most gas stations,
well below recommended octane levels from the factory.


Jarrod–'69 E-type series 2 FHC 4.2L 4 speed
Lewis Center/Ohio, United States
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In reply to a message from Jarrod Maille sent Tue 3 May 2011:

I think a poster that was looking for a fairly straight
forward answer and may be getting inundated by more complex
answers then necessary?

Not that they are incorrect, but possibly confusing?

Simply put:

  1. Highest octane available!

If it doesn’t work well (pinging).

  1. Engine adjust! (i.e. timing, compression, ignition,etc…)

I am not in anyway belittling any other comments! Sorry if I
have offended!–
The original message included these comments:

In no way was it suggested to run octane ratings of 98
and 94, that obviously won’t be feasible. But knowing what
was intended to be run in the engine will help you to
determine what you should run. In Ohio, I just get the
highest octane I can, didn’t look the last time I filled
up, but pretty sure it’s 92 or 93. That being said…I’d
get the button on the right.


Cove Britton 64 E FHC 59 Mark I 2001 XJR
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In reply to a message from Jarrod Maille sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Europe etc. uses RON octane rating, US AKI.
I believe this results in US 94 being approx. equivalent to
the Europe 98 and suitable for the high compression Eu spec
engines, triple SU�s etc.
Standard Eu 95 equivalent to 90 US would be good for the low
compression US engines, twin Stroms etc. The regular grade
most easily available in the US is about 87 (I think, driven
but never lived there) would be better used with some kind
of octane booster–
The original message included these comments:

says for 9:1 compression ratio engines 98, octane is
recommended. And for 8:1 compression ratio engines, 94
octane. Also: -8 or -9 at the end of engine number


Mal
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In reply to a message from ahrbruz sent Tue 3 May 2011:

Hi,

:slight_smile:

Ok, I guess you are right the US 94 should be what we use
for the old Jaguars in here, which is 98E (RON) and the
E-types does not run properly with anything less, or you’ll
have to retard the ignition etc.

I just filled her up yesterday with Shell’s V-power, which
they claim should be 99+ (RON), it seems suitable, but at
�1,67 EUR per litre that’s $2.48 USD per litre which takes
over �100,- euros ($148,50 USD) every time I fill her up! :-o

BUT, no pinking, runs cool and smooth.

Too bad the dyno was closed on Monday, I found out why there
was no power! Thanks to the shop who did the head, they
apparently did not bother to check the ignition at all, only
put her back together and started her up, as I checked
timing before tuning the SU’s and I could not find the
scale!!! After a search with the timing light, I found it on
the wrong side: it was ca. 20� ATDC when it should have been
10� BTDC so it was at least 30� off! I’m surprised it ran so
well, but it would go higher than 3.200 rpm. Now it does! :wink:

Cheers,
Pekka T. 1E76372BW MOD–
The original message included these comments:

North of the 49th we have four grades of gasoline. Regular,
rated at 87 octane is currently $1.40 CA per litre. 94 rated
octane, which is the top grade a some stations (Chevron) is
the choice for E-Types. Runs about $1.55 CA per litre. The
middle two ratings, 89 and 91 octane are not compatible with
the 4.2 litre, triple SU carbed version.
Not sure if the ratings are comparable with the US, but use
the highest octane rating you can find. Otherwise, fiddle
with carb settings, timing, flex fingers, etc.
Cheers,
Bruce


MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Tue 3 May 2011:

I agree ‘‘pre-detonation’’ is not a defined term and a bit of an
oxymoron. The ‘‘pre’’ in pre ignition means combustion before the
spark event. It is so rare in a road car, it is not an issue, but
many text confuse the terms. Detonation (pinging) occurs between
the spark event and TDC. It is only an issue under load, usually
at WOT near the torque peak. The idea of detonation at idle or
under cruise with 18 inches of vacuum in the manifold is not
reality. Many XK engines need more octane than unleaded premium
for ideal timing at WOT, but running regular under light load to
get home will not blow up your engine.

Paul–
The original message included these comments:

A good explanation, with a small correction: There really
isn’t a condition called ‘‘pre-detonation.’’ There is indeed
pre-ignition, differentiated from detonation (pinging,
pinking, knocking, as synonyms).
Engine Basics: Detonation and Pre-Ignition by Allen W. Cline
That said, at sea level you are dead right: Use the highest
grade possible and most likely a detonation XK engine, at
that level, will need a recurve and a less-aggressive
initial timing. I get away with 91 RON at the altitude I
live at, but juuust barely!


PS
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In reply to a message from PS sent Wed 4 May 2011:

I thought this passage to be very interesting, and relevant.

''One of the characteristic chambers that people are familiar with
is the Chrysler Hemi. The engine had a chamber that was like a half
of a baseball. Hemispherical in nature and in nomenclature, too.
The two valves were on either side of the chamber with the spark
plug at the very top. The charge burned downward across the
chamber. That approach worked fairly well in passenger car engines
but racing versions of the Hemi had problems. Because the chamber
was so big and the bores were so large, the chamber volume also was
large; it was difficult to get the compression ratio high. Racers
put a dome on the piston to increase the compression ratio. If you
were to take that solution to the extreme and had a 13:1 or 14:1
compression ratio in the engine pistons had a very tall dome. The
piston dome almost mimicked the shape of the head’s combustion
chamber with the piston at top dead center. One could call the
remaining volume ‘‘the skin of the orange.’’ When ignited the charge
burned very slowly, like the ripples in a pond, covering the
distance to the block cylinder wall. Thus, those engines, as a
result of the chamber design, required a tremendous amount of spark
advance, about 40-45 degrees. With that much spark advance
detonation was a serious possibility if not fed high octane fuel.
Hemis tended to be very sensitive to tuning. As often happened, one
would keep advancing the spark, get more power and all of a sudden
the engine would detonate, Because they were high output engines,
turning at high RPM, things would happen suddenly.

Hemi racing engines would typically knock the ring land off, get
blow by, torch the piston and fall apart. No one then understood
why. We now know that the Hemi design is at the worst end of the
spectrum for a combustion chamber. A nice compact chamber is best;
that’s why the four valve pent roof style chambers are so popular.
The flatter the chamber, the smaller the closed volume of the
chamber, the less dome you need in the piston. We can get
inherently high compression ratios with a flat top piston with a
very nice bum pattern right in the combustion chamber, with very
short distances, with very good mixture motion - a very efficient
chamber.

Look at a Northstar or most of the 4 valve type engines - all with
flat top pistons, very compact combustion chambers, very narrow
valve angles and there is no need for a dome that impedes the burn
to raise the compression ratio to 10:1.‘’–
The original message included these comments:

reality. Many XK engines need more octane than unleaded premium
for ideal timing at WOT, but running regular under light load to
get home will not blow up your engine.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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