Hi,
I am new to the list (well, returning to it after 3 1/2 years)
I hope this is of interest to you all…
After a long pause in the restoration of my 65ots the engine is now rebuilt to a “level two” spec. I’ve been interested in improving the performance of the engine and getting it to do that magical 150mph that the factory claimed that it would do. I went down to Gran Turismo Jaguar (where the motor was rebuilt) to watch it run on their dyno. I have heard that dyno results can be cooked but what I saw at GTJ seemed to be reasonable. My father-in-law is a dyno guru at Ford (works at F-wing and sets up the environment rooms). I had him on the phone as the engine was run up and had him talking to the GTJ engine builder (talked the poor guys ear off) to check on what exactly he was doing. They went through all the parameters of the test and the room environment (humidity, room temp, standard SAE deviations etc etc). GTJ does a sort of sweep through the rpm range and measures hp and torque from 1800rpm up to about 7000rpm in one shot. My father -in-law did not like this as he sai!
d it was not very accurate - so he had them pick what they thought was the engines peak rpm and had them do a steady state test at that rpm. We got 248 bph at 5200 rpm - about 5bph lower than the sweep run. Pretty close. It was making about 283ft/lbs torque. My father-in-law said that if they ran some bracketed steady state runs at 100 rpms intervals above and below the 5200rpms run that they probably would have found the peak bph elsewhere as the fuel g/hour was not as high at 5200rpms as expected.Sooo, he thinks the engine probably makes more than 248bhp and probably at a slightly higher rpm. Over all my father-in law was impressed - said it seemed to represent net SAE hp. The engine was run with exhaust system on (same as I will use on my car).
So, roughly 250 horse power. You say this does not sound so hot as the factory rated the engine at 265bph?
Well, it seems that a stock built 3 carb 4.2 motor in healthy shape makes between 180-190bph on the GTJ dyno. So it looks like I have 60-70 more horses now. And some serious torque. Not exactly Mike Franks motor, but maybe now the engine will do what it was intended to do? :). Also, we found that the motor was making over 250 ft/lbs of torque at 1800rpm. So who needs first gear? The engine will idle at 800rpm and fuel use is not effected at lower rpms.
Csaba said that the E-type would require 40 more bph to be at the factory claim of 265bph. GTJ says the 4.2 3carb E is about 80bph short of that claim. I suppose that the claims made in the 60s were based on gross hp and not net.
Mark McChesney
'00Ranger
'00Windstar
'65 E type ots
'62 Mini Cooper (S spec)
'57 BMW Isetta 300
Hey, welcome back! I’ll be glad to put that motor in my car and break it in for you.
How does the engine idle compared to a stock engine? I’d like to warm mine up a bit as well, but don’t want to end up
with something that sounds like a dragster at idle.
Regards,------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lee Scott
'71 Series 2 E-type OTS
'67 420 Saloon
email: @Lee_Scott1
Phone:205-669-1929
Fax: 205-669-0914
Hi,
I am new to the list (well, returning to it after 3 1/2 years)
I hope this is of interest to you all…
After a long pause in the restoration of my 65ots the engine
is now rebuilt to a “level two” spec. I’ve been interested in
improving the performance of the engine and getting it to do
that magical 150mph that the factory claimed that it would
do. I went down to Gran Turismo Jaguar (where the motor was
rebuilt) to watch it run on their dyno. I have heard that
dyno results can be cooked but what I saw at GTJ seemed to be
reasonable. My father-in-law is a dyno guru at Ford (works at
F-wing and sets up the environment rooms). I had him on the
phone as the engine was run up and had him talking to the GTJ
engine builder (talked the poor guys ear off) to check on
what exactly he was doing. They went through all the
parameters of the test and the room environment (humidity,
room temp, standard SAE deviations etc etc). GTJ does a sort
of sweep through the rpm range and measures hp and torque
from 1800rpm up to about 7000rpm in one shot. My father
-in-law did not like this as he sai!
d it was not very accurate - so he had them pick what they
thought was the engines peak rpm and had them do a steady
state test at that rpm. We got 248 bph at 5200 rpm - about
5bph lower than the sweep run. Pretty close. It was making
about 283ft/lbs torque. My father-in-law said that if they
ran some bracketed steady state runs at 100 rpms intervals
above and below the 5200rpms run that they probably would
have found the peak bph elsewhere as the fuel g/hour was not
as high at 5200rpms as expected.Sooo, he thinks the engine
probably makes more than 248bhp and probably at a slightly
higher rpm. Over all my father-in law was impressed - said it
seemed to represent net SAE hp. The engine was run with
exhaust system on (same as I will use on my car).
So, roughly 250 horse power. You say this does not sound so
hot as the factory rated the engine at 265bph?
Well, it seems that a stock built 3 carb 4.2 motor in healthy
shape makes between 180-190bph on the GTJ dyno. So it looks
like I have 60-70 more horses now. And some serious torque.
Not exactly Mike Franks motor, but maybe now the engine will
do what it was intended to do? :). Also, we found that the
motor was making over 250 ft/lbs of torque at 1800rpm. So who
needs first gear? The engine will idle at 800rpm and fuel
use is not effected at lower rpms.
Csaba said that the E-type would require 40 more bph to be at
the factory claim of 265bph. GTJ says the 4.2 3carb E is
about 80bph short of that claim. I suppose that the claims
made in the 60s were based on gross hp and not net.
Mark McChesney
'00Ranger
'00Windstar
'65 E type ots
'62 Mini Cooper (S spec)
'57 BMW Isetta 300
They were still tuning the idle on the carbs, but it should be close to normal (so they said), and 800rpms.
I got the engine rebuilt because the movers that stored stuff (I went to work in England for 2years) dropped the motor onto the ground - hard! So they paid for most of the rebuild.
Hey, welcome back! I’ll be glad to put that motor in my car and break it in for you.
How does the engine idle compared to a stock engine? I’d like to warm mine up a bit as well, but don’t want to end up
with something that sounds like a dragster at idle.
Regards,
Lee Scott
'71 Series 2 E-type OTS
'67 420 Saloon
email: oldjags@bellsouth.net
Phone:205-669-1929
Fax: 205-669-0914
Hi,
I am new to the list (well, returning to it after 3 1/2 years)
I hope this is of interest to you all…
After a long pause in the restoration of my 65ots the engine
is now rebuilt to a “level two” spec. I’ve been interested in
improving the performance of the engine and getting it to do
that magical 150mph that the factory claimed that it would
do. I went down to Gran Turismo Jaguar (where the motor was
rebuilt) to watch it run on their dyno. I have heard that
dyno results can be cooked but what I saw at GTJ seemed to be
reasonable. My father-in-law is a dyno guru at Ford (works at
F-wing and sets up the environment rooms). I had him on the
phone as the engine was run up and had him talking to the GTJ
engine builder (talked the poor guys ear off) to check on
what exactly he was doing. They went through all the
parameters of the test and the room environment (humidity,
room temp, standard SAE deviations etc etc). GTJ does a sort
of sweep through the rpm range and measures hp and torque
from 1800rpm up to about 7000rpm in one shot. My father
-in-law did not like this as he sai!
d it was not very accurate - so he had them pick what they
thought was the engines peak rpm and had them do a steady
state test at that rpm. We got 248 bph at 5200 rpm - about
5bph lower than the sweep run. Pretty close. It was making
about 283ft/lbs torque. My father-in-law said that if they
ran some bracketed steady state runs at 100 rpms intervals
above and below the 5200rpms run that they probably would
have found the peak bph elsewhere as the fuel g/hour was not
as high at 5200rpms as expected.Sooo, he thinks the engine
probably makes more than 248bhp and probably at a slightly
higher rpm. Over all my father-in law was impressed - said it
seemed to represent net SAE hp. The engine was run with
exhaust system on (same as I will use on my car).
So, roughly 250 horse power. You say this does not sound so
hot as the factory rated the engine at 265bph?
Well, it seems that a stock built 3 carb 4.2 motor in healthy
shape makes between 180-190bph on the GTJ dyno. So it looks
like I have 60-70 more horses now. And some serious torque.
Not exactly Mike Franks motor, but maybe now the engine will
do what it was intended to do? :). Also, we found that the
motor was making over 250 ft/lbs of torque at 1800rpm. So who
needs first gear? The engine will idle at 800rpm and fuel
use is not effected at lower rpms.
Csaba said that the E-type would require 40 more bph to be at
the factory claim of 265bph. GTJ says the 4.2 3carb E is
about 80bph short of that claim. I suppose that the claims
made in the 60s were based on gross hp and not net.
Mark McChesney
'00Ranger
'00Windstar
'65 E type ots
'62 Mini Cooper (S spec)
'57 BMW Isetta 300
Sounds great. I can't wait to hear the road reports (on your car
and mine both…)
Mike Frank
1969 E-Type 2+2
New York
.Sooo, he thinks the engine probably makes more than 248bhp and probably at
a slightly higher rpm. Over all my father-in law was impressed - said it
seemed to represent net SAE hp. The engine was run with exhaust system on
(same as I will use on my car).
I’m confused (fairly normal state). Dan just listed a 62 full rebuild
contract with a stage 1 engine and he states 300 HP. If you got a stage 2,
why only 250?
After a long pause in the restoration of my 65ots the engine is now
rebuilt to a “level two” spec. I’ve been interested in improving the
performance of the engine and getting it to do that magical 150mph that the
factory claimed that it would do. I went down to Gran Turismo Jaguar (where
the motor was rebuilt) to watch it run on their dyno. I have heard that
dyno
snip
Welcome back Mark, how about a brief list of what has been done to the
engine? I got mine rebuilt several years ago including balancing but stuck
to a standard type of rebuild but have the odd twinge that another 60hp
would have been nice.
Yeah, where is my other 50bhp then?!!!
I don’t know. Who built the motor? The GTJ level 1 is said to make an extra 30hp over the stock motor, so if you use the stock figure of 265hp and add 30hp you get over 300hp. Or, if it is a motor built by Classic Jaguar they claim their level 1 motor makes 300hp. I do not know how Classic hp rating works. I do know that Classic has a rolling road dyno - measures hp from the rear wheels. They have to guess at what it makes at the crankshaft. But a measurement at the rear wheels would be nice because you’d know how much hp you are loosing though the drivetrain.
I wonder how much hp is lost in using the new 5-speed gearboxes over the old jag 4speed? A rolling road could tell you that.
Mark McChesney
65ots-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Tarkir [mailto:Dennis@tarkir.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:05 AM
To: E-Type Lovers (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [E-Type] GTJ level 2
I’m confused (fairly normal state). Dan just listed a 62 full rebuild
contract with a stage 1 engine and he states 300 HP. If you got a stage 2,
why only 250?
Ignore the marketing hype. First of all, stage 1/stage 2 is a vendor term.
It really means whatever they want it to mean, what your seeing is just
some vendor sparring. Second, the only horsepower measurement that counts
is what you measure on an engine dyno…not the number you estimate from
the rear wheel HP on a tune up dyno. If you’re paying up for a performance
engine, meaning anything that requires extensive flow bench work, you
should always ask for the dyno sheets, and understand what sort of
measurement you are getting.
Mike Frank
1969 E-Type 2+2
New York
At 01:05 AM 6/20/01, you wrote:>I’m confused (fairly normal state). Dan just listed a 62 full rebuild
contract with a stage 1 engine and he states 300 HP. If you got a stage 2,
why only 250?
My estimate of the E-type’s power was definitely a guess based on published
performance figures, the car’s weight, and general estimates of the
difference between “gross” and “net” power, The spread between the two
measurements varied wildly, based on the needs of the manufacturer’s
advertising department.
Given how quick modern cars can go with horsepower in the mid 200s, even ones
that weigh a lot more than the E-type, Dan’s measurements of power in the
high 100s, seems perfectly reasonable.
An E-type with 265 “net” horsepower could probably run the quarter-mile in
the thirteens.
Csaba Csere
Hi,
I am new to the list (well, returning to it after 3 1/2 years)
I hope this is of interest to you all…
After a long pause in the restoration of my 65ots the engine is now rebuilt
to a “level two” spec. I’ve been interested in improving the performance of
the engine and getting it to do that magical 150mph that the factory claimed
that it would do. I went down to Gran Turismo Jaguar (where the motor was
rebuilt) to watch it run on their dyno. I have heard that dyno results can
be cooked but what I saw at GTJ seemed to be reasonable. My father-in-law is
a dyno guru at Ford (works at F-wing and sets up the environment rooms). I
had him on the phone as the engine was run up and had him talking to the GTJ
engine builder (talked the poor guys ear off) to check on what exactly he was
doing. They went through all the parameters of the test and the room
environment (humidity, room temp, standard SAE deviations etc etc). GTJ does
a sort of sweep through the rpm range and measures hp and torque from 1800rpm
up to about 7000rpm in one shot. My father -in-law did not like this as he
sai!
d it was not very accurate - so he had them pick what they thought was the
engines peak rpm and had them do a steady state test at that rpm. We got 248
bph at 5200 rpm - about 5bph lower than the sweep run. Pretty close. It was
making about 283ft/lbs torque. My father-in-law said that if they ran some
bracketed steady state runs at 100 rpms intervals above and below the
5200rpms run that they probably would have found the peak bph elsewhere as
the fuel g/hour was not as high at 5200rpms as expected.Sooo, he thinks the
engine probably makes more than 248bhp and probably at a slightly higher rpm.
Over all my father-in law was impressed - said it seemed to represent net SAE
hp. The engine was run with exhaust system on (same as I will use on my car).
So, roughly 250 horse power. You say this does not sound so hot as the
factory rated the engine at 265bph?
Well, it seems that a stock built 3 carb 4.2 motor in healthy shape makes
between 180-190bph on the GTJ dyno. So it looks like I have 60-70 more horses
now. And some serious torque. Not exactly Mike Franks motor, but maybe now
the engine will do what it was intended to do? :). Also, we found that the
motor was making over 250 ft/lbs of torque at 1800rpm. So who needs first
gear? The engine will idle at 800rpm and fuel use is not effected at lower
rpms.
Csaba said that the E-type would require 40 more bph to be at the factory
claim of 265bph. GTJ says the 4.2 3carb E is about 80bph short of that claim.
I suppose that the claims made in the 60s were based on gross hp and not net.
Mark McChesney
'00Ranger
'00Windstar
'65 E type ots
'62 Mini Cooper (S spec)
'57 BMW Isetta 300
The engine will idle at 800rpm and fuel use is not effected at lower rpms.
The engine will idle at 800rpm and fuel