I am looking to purchase a second hand bell housing for my
3.8 FHC
The question is how do I identify the correct bell housing?
Are there any id marks, part numbers stamped on the casing
or specific dimensions that can be used to identify the
correct bell housing?
I am replacing the moss gearbox with a 4.2 box and to
minimise any delays the plan is to but a second hand bell
housing and have it machined, mated to the gearbox and ready
to fit as soon as the old gearbox is taken out.
The same applies to the 3.8 flywheel as I will probably have
that drilled to accept a 9.5� clutch so if I can buy a good
second hand one and have that drilled so much the better or
ideally one that has already been drilled and balanced.
In reply to a message from Phil Rowe sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:
All bell housings will mate to a XK engine. You should retain the
lightweight 3.8 flywheel - which entains using the 3.8 starter +
pinion (number of teeth on flywheel). Consequently the bell housing
has to be able to accept the 3.8 starter. I understand that the
pocket into which the Bendix goes may need to be larger than that
for the later pre-engaged drive. If you intend going to a hi-torque
starter these starter comments don’t apply. I bought my 4.2 synchro
gearbox with the bell housing. The bolts on the back of the gearbox
are different for the Moss box (BSF)and the synchro box (UNF)
I understand that the S type bell housing is ideal.
I replaced my starter cable with a larger diameter and routed it
around the back of the engine (shorter = less resistance) and have
no starter problems.–
4444
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from 4444 sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:
So no one is confused here:
The general rule is that the starter, flywheel, and bell
housing ALL must be from the same type car,i.e., 3.8 or 4.2.
You can bolt all sorts of other combinations together, but
they will be a problem. I have bought two 3.8’s now whose
owners had given up on them because of starter problems.
In both cases, they had 4.2 trannys, 4.2 bells, 3.8
flywheels and 3.8 starters. The center distance between the
pinion and ring gear is controlled by the machining of the
bell housing spigot for the starter and it must match the
starter and flywheel.
Mike Moore–
The original message included these comments:
All bell housings will mate to a XK engine. You should retain the
In reply to a message from Mike Moore sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:
Thanks Mike
It was one of your previous posts as well as advice from
other forum members that has put me on the right track.
Originally I assumed I would need a 4.2 bell housing and now
of course realise that I must retain the 3.8 bell housing
and machine it so that it mates to the 4.2 gearbox.
I could and may still have my current bell housing machined
however, my preference is to buy a second hand bell housing
and have that machined so that when the moss box comes out
the 4.2 gearbox is ready to go straight back in.
The problem is how do I identify 3.8 bell housing?
I don�t suppose Jaguar made life easy by stamping onto the
bell housing �this is 3.8 bell housing� and I obviously
don�t want to have a bell housing machined on to find that
the starter motor does not fit.
Unless I can find a bell housing were the seller is
absolutely sure it is for a 3.8 then I may have to have my
bell housing machined to fit.
Any information regarding compatibly from other models would
be helpful, for example would a bell housing from a 3.4 MK
II or S-Type fit? Or models which will not fit, i.e. 4.2
engines and 2.4?
In reply to a message from Phil Rowe sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:
I just checked my 3.8 against the 4.2 bellhousing that I purchased
for the ‘‘EJ’’ swap. One subtle difference is that the 4.2 has a
sheet metal plate over the inspection hole at the top. It is
fastened by a screw that is threaded into the rim of the casting.
The screw/hole is horizontal (parallel to the crankshaft). My late
3.8 housing has no plate and no threaded hole for that screw, so I
presume it’s typical of all of the 3.8 units. My 4.2 parts came
from a '65 or '67…can’t recall which. This is noted in Haddock’s
book. You can also measure the size of the hole for the
transmission (the one you must machine).
I’m wondering why you don’t simply use a 4.2 flywheel and bell
housing…–
Eric
Republic of Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from 64etype sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:
Hi Eric
I did consider using a 4.2 bell housing and flywheel but I
would also need a new starter motor and having just fitted a
new hi-torque starter to the 3.8 the costs of going down the
4.2 route start to escalate.
Although there would be no machining required if I changed
to all 4.2 parts I am not sure what effect there would be on
the 3.8 engine if I fitted the heavier 4.2 flywheel.
Reading other posts on here would suggest the best way is to
machine the 3.8 bell housing to fit the 4.2 gearbox and keep
the rest of the 3.8 parts standard.
Phil,
I did this conversion some 20 years ago and as I had a 4.2 bell
housing I took both bell housings to a machinist friend and had him
duplicate the bearing area of the 4.2 on the 3.8. It’s worked fine and
never been apart except to install an aluminum flywheel. Go for it!
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On Feb 3, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Phil Rowe wrote:
In reply to a message from 64etype sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:
Hi Eric
I did consider using a 4.2 bell housing and flywheel but I
would also need a new starter motor and having just fitted a
new hi-torque starter to the 3.8 the costs of going down the
4.2 route start to escalate.
Although there would be no machining required if I changed
to all 4.2 parts I am not sure what effect there would be on
the 3.8 engine if I fitted the heavier 4.2 flywheel.
Reading other posts on here would suggest the best way is to
machine the 3.8 bell housing to fit the 4.2 gearbox and keep
the rest of the 3.8 parts standard.
In reply to a message from Stevenson Robert sent Thu 3 Feb 2011:
Now I’m wondering about the weight difference between the two
fywheels… How much, and could my 4.2 flywheel be machined to
the lighter weight?–
Eric
Republic of Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
I had the 3.8 bell housing machined rather then use the 4.2 part to
keep my original starter, flywheel etc. I have no idea of how much can
be machined off of a 4.2 flywheel, and though I have no first hand
knowledge of a Jag flywheel ever coming apart, the thought of all of
that weight spinning a few inches from your leg is a consideration.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:34 AM, 64etype wrote:
In reply to a message from Stevenson Robert sent Thu 3 Feb 2011:
Now I’m wondering about the weight difference between the two
fywheels… How much, and could my 4.2 flywheel be machined to
the lighter weight?
Eric
Republic of Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Phil, You are absolutely correct. Just have the 3.8 bellhousing machined and
stab the new trans in.
Larry----- Original Message ----
From: Phil Rowe phil@vintage-classics.co.uk
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 1:22:17 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Identifying a 3.8 Bell housing
In reply to a message from 64etype sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:
Hi Eric
I did consider using a 4.2 bell housing and flywheel but I
would also need a new starter motor and having just fitted a
new hi-torque starter to the 3.8 the costs of going down the
4.2 route start to escalate.
Although there would be no machining required if I changed
to all 4.2 parts I am not sure what effect there would be on
the 3.8 engine if I fitted the heavier 4.2 flywheel.
Reading other posts on here would suggest the best way is to
machine the 3.8 bell housing to fit the 4.2 gearbox and keep
the rest of the 3.8 parts standard.
In reply to a message from Larry Kohler sent Thu 3 Feb 2011:
All things considered I think having the bell housing
machined may be the most straight forward option. Assuming
that is I can get it machined to the correct dimensions.
Does anyone have a photo of a 4.2 bell housing which they
could upload or e-mail to me? It is always easier to see
what the end results should look like. Currently I do not
know if all that is required is to make the original hole
bigger or if the hole has to be stepped so that one part
fits over the bearing housing and the larger diameter hole
fits over the outer ring on the gearbox if you know what I mean.
In fact, I have just had a look at a parts book and there is
a gasket listed which fits between the gearbox and the bell
housing does anyone know if that is accurate enough to be
used as a template?
Yes, I know its 12 years old but its the closest thread I could find to answering my query…
Need help to ID this bell housing please. From what I can deduce, I believe it is a 3.8 bell housing with 4.2 bearing area. Not sure re the starter but the bolt holes are not recessed to take dowels. Not sure what its out of and what it will suit. No visible casting numbers. I do intend offering for sale but would like to know what it is.
Hi Dave, I have a 3.8 E-Type bell housing right here and mostly, it’s the same as yours except for the bearing area and the much enlarged hole in the bottom.
The starter area dimensions are the same but the largest bore in the bearing area is a lot less than yours, 99.98mm. Maybe someone who has done the conversion to full synchro will chime in with those dimensions.
Thanks for that Clive.
So I’m thinking 3.8 that will accept all syncro - either modified this way or standard? I read on another thread that 2.8 XJ were set up this way.
Anyone able to confirm the gearbox bearing as 4.2? Thanks.
