I’ve almost finished my wiring project and now I have an
ignition problem: No spark.
I tested all of the wiring for continuity, including the
white and white/black wires going to the coil. I have a
solid 12 volts going to the coil (white wire). I read the
schematic and double-checked that the white wire goes to the
side of the coil and the white/black goes to the - side.
I did the ‘‘turn the ignition on and see if there is a spark
across the points when you manually open them with a
screwdriver’’ test with good results. Yes, I’ve got 12 volts
going from the coil to the distributor points (white/black
wire).
I cleaned everything, including the rotor and it all looks
good to me. I then used my timing light to see if I was
getting anything. Answer is no. Nothing to any of the plugs,
nothing from the coil to the distributor.
Bad coil? I replaced the coil with another one and when that
one didn’t work, I bought a new one today. That one doesn’t
work either. I even tried swapping out the distributor and
the wires from the 2+2 to see if I had a hidden wiring
issue. No luck.
Am I doing something wrong or forgetting something? What
could I be overlooking? The car was tuned up with new
points, etc., right before I started in on straightening out
the wiring harness and ran just fine. This shouldn’t be an
issue but it is.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Tue 11 May 2010:
Robert,
Have you tried an Ohmmeter/dwell-tach to ensure that the points
are actually opening?
Andrew–
The original message included these comments:
I did the ‘‘turn the ignition on and see if there is a spark
across the points when you manually open them with a
screwdriver’’ test with good results. Yes, I’ve got 12 volts
going from the coil to the distributor points (white/black
wire).
–
1968 3.8S
Zurich, Switzerland
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Tue 11 May 2010:
Not knowing your wiring exactly just make sure the following
is true (for a negative ground car! ):
12v to + (plus) side of coil
Ground wire goes from - (Neg) side of coil to distributor
Testing:
Remove both wires from coil, measure voltage with ignition
switch on, there should only be ONE that has 12v and the
other one should have continuity to ground
Remove wire where it attaches to distributor, measure
continuity to ground from coil end of same wire. It should
not be grounded. Check voltage, it should be 0.
Re attach ground wire to coil - (minus) and to distributor:
With points open there should be NO continuity to ground
from coil if so then there is a problem with points or you
may be missing some insulating washers where it hooks to
distributor
In reply to a message from JagWaugh sent Tue 11 May 2010:
To refine what Andrew said, see if the rubbing block is still
on the moving points and that as the cam part of the
distributor shaft come around it is actually opening the
points.
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Tue 11 May 2010:
If you have the ignition on and ''break'' the points with a
screw driver–do you get any spark out of the coil wire to
ground? If so,then check the contact in the distributor cap–
Good luck
Sal–
The original message included these comments:
ignition problem: No spark.
I did the ‘‘turn the ignition on and see if there is a spark
across the points when you manually open them with a
screwdriver’’ test with good results. Yes, I’ve got 12 volts
–
Sal Parisi
Roslyn,Pa., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Tue 11 May 2010:
Bob,
With points closed, you should have +12V on the + side of the coil,
and 0V on the - side of the coil. With the point open, you should
have +12V on BOTH sides of the coil. If so, then your wiring is
fine. If opening and closing the points does not get a good spark
on the HT wire of the coil, then most likely you have a bad
condenser. Don’t get the rotor, cap and wires into the mix until
you get a good, consistent, healthy, blue-white spark at the HT
wire while cranking the engine.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Tue 11 May 2010:
Thank you all for your suggestions. I’ll take another look
at things. This really can’t be that difficult…but it
always seems that the electronic gods never like to smile on me.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Tue 11 May 2010:
a. have you tried checking for spark on different wires?
You might have a bad wire or a bad connection to the cap.
Those screw in bits that attach the wires to the dist work
well enough but you have to be really careful assembling them.
b. we’ve had numerous issues come up in the past concerning
the distributor rotors that are commonly available.
Someone, I think George, had a handle on a supplier for good
ones. You might want to check that out.
c. If all else checks out I can’t think of another point of
failure besides the dist cap. Have you changed it lately?
Any noticeable wear or pitting on the inside contacts?–
Erica MaLossi 64 3.8 OTS
Austin,TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Erica MaLossi sent Wed 12 May 2010:
Eric:
I’ll be getting to the car this weekend again and trying out
all of the suggestions given. The frustrating thing is that
the car was running just fine right before I started the
rewire project. It had just come back from my mechanic for
the clutch replacement and tune-up, plus I just had Joe
Curto rebuild the carbs. The wiring sort-out was my final
project. So whatever the issue, it just ‘‘happened’’ while the
car has been sitting. Either that or somehow I created it
inadvertently while sorting the wiring.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Erica MaLossi sent Wed 12 May 2010:
Ok, it’s the mysteries of the gods. Today I ran through all
of the suggestions that you guys gave me. Coil tests out
just fine. I pulled the points out and they appeared to be
just fine also-after all they are almost new. Just because
they were out I went ahead and cleaned them anyway. I put
them back in and gapped them properly. I tested continuity
with my meter between the minus side coil wire (yes I
disconnected it from the coil) and chassis ground. The
points appear to be functioning properly, breaking the
continuity with ground on cue as I open and closed them
manually. Everything is in place, including the proper fiber
washer-remember that the car had just been to my mechanic
for a clutch replacement and tune-up and ran just fine. So I
buttoned everything back up, hooked up my inductive timing
light to the main coil lead to tell me when I had spark, and
cranked the car over. Here’s what I observed:
No spark while cranking but as soon as I shut the ignition
off, I got a single flash from the timing light. Curious, I
repeated the process a couple of times with the same
results: No spark while cranking but the single (good) one
at shutoff. Clearly the coil is good and the coil field is
collapsing at ignition off to produce the spark. But why not
during cranking? If my continuity test shows the points
opening and closing properly, why no spark while cranking?
Any thoughts?
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Sat 15 May 2010:
Bob,
Bad ignition switch, or bad ballast bypass relay. Do you have 12V
on the coil while cranking? I’m guessing not…–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sat 15 May 2010:
Thanks, Ray:
I hooked my meter between the coil + and the white ignition
wire. Sure enough, the 12 volts dropped as soon as I started
cranking. I never would have thought to test for that, so
good call! Since I did a replacement on the ignition switch
with the one that I knew was good out of the 2+2, I am
suspecting that there is a wiring issue that I have not
addressed with the switch. I’m off to trace wires again!
Thanks again! You 'da man!
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Sat 15 May 2010:
Bob,
It’s a surprisingly common problem on the later cars. Usually, the
symptom is it cranks, and cranks, and cranks without firing. Then
as soon as you let go of the key, it fires up.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Bob, Starter motor drawing too much current?
Larry
Agoura Hills, Ca
61 OTS 64 FHC 3.8----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Moore robertmoore@comcast.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 6:17:21 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Ignition/coil: What to check next?
In reply to a message from Erica MaLossi sent Wed 12 May 2010:
Ok, it’s the mysteries of the gods. Today I ran through all
of the suggestions that you guys gave me. Coil tests out
just fine. I pulled the points out and they appeared to be
just fine also-after all they are almost new. Just because
they were out I went ahead and cleaned them anyway. I put
them back in and gapped them properly. I tested continuity
with my meter between the minus side coil wire (yes I
disconnected it from the coil) and chassis ground. The
points appear to be functioning properly, breaking the
continuity with ground on cue as I open and closed them
manually. Everything is in place, including the proper fiber
washer-remember that the car had just been to my mechanic
for a clutch replacement and tune-up and ran just fine. So I
buttoned everything back up, hooked up my inductive timing
light to the main coil lead to tell me when I had spark, and
cranked the car over. Here’s what I observed:
No spark while cranking but as soon as I shut the ignition
off, I got a single flash from the timing light. Curious, I
repeated the process a couple of times with the same
results: No spark while cranking but the single (good) one
at shutoff. Clearly the coil is good and the coil field is
collapsing at ignition off to produce the spark. But why not
during cranking? If my continuity test shows the points
opening and closing properly, why no spark while cranking?
Any thoughts?
Bob
–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Bob,
If you have a ballast resistor that’s a classic symptom of a wiring
issue as it uses a separate circuit for ignition while cranking. If
not it could be low voltage during cranking. Put your meter on the +
side of the coil make sure it reads 12V while cranking.
pauls67ots
In reply to a message from Erica MaLossi sent Wed 12 May 2010:
Ok, it’s the mysteries of the gods. Today I ran through all
of the suggestions that you guys gave me. Coil tests out
just fine. I pulled the points out and they appeared to be
just fine also-after all they are almost new. Just because
they were out I went ahead and cleaned them anyway. I put
them back in and gapped them properly. I tested continuity
with my meter between the minus side coil wire (yes I
disconnected it from the coil) and chassis ground. The
points appear to be functioning properly, breaking the
continuity with ground on cue as I open and closed them
manually. Everything is in place, including the proper fiber
washer-remember that the car had just been to my mechanic
for a clutch replacement and tune-up and ran just fine. So I
buttoned everything back up, hooked up my inductive timing
light to the main coil lead to tell me when I had spark, and
cranked the car over. Here’s what I observed:
No spark while cranking but as soon as I shut the ignition
off, I got a single flash from the timing light. Curious, I
repeated the process a couple of times with the same
results: No spark while cranking but the single (good) one
at shutoff. Clearly the coil is good and the coil field is
collapsing at ignition off to produce the spark. But why not
during cranking? If my continuity test shows the points
opening and closing properly, why no spark while cranking?
Any thoughts?
Bob
<<<<<<<<<From: “Robert Moore” robertmoore@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Ignition/coil: What to check next?
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sat 15 May 2010:
Happy Dance!
Well maybe a little one!
The problem was in the switch wiring. I apparently didn’t
get the right wires sorted correctly. Once I pulled the
switch out and retraced the wires, I found the error. With a
little fiddling with the fuel pump to get it ticking over
again, she fired up. She isn’t running smoothly yet, I am
going to have to recheck the points gap, but she does run.
And that’s a start back to getting on the road again. Good
news is that so far a lot of the wiring appears to be
working fine with the various electrical things operating as
designed.
On the down side, the problem that I had with the alternator
not putting out is still there, but at least with the car
running I can troubleshoot it. I put the CoolCat 3AW switch
for the warning light back into the circuit (it had been
thrown out) and the idiot light comes on now. Also I got rid
of the aftermarket amp gauge and put back the standard volt
gauge, which is showing the battery discharging. I did
notice that one of the terminals (F+) on the alternator is
loose. I suspect that a wire is not connected inside. Ray,
got any idea how to test to see if I have a broken
connection inside before I pull it off?
Well, I’m done for today, but this is a ‘‘happy’’ done. She
runs again!
Thank you all for your suggestions.
Bob–
'69 2+2-Big Red, '69 OTS-Priscilla, '99 XK8-Othello
Mantua NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Robert Moore sent Sat 15 May 2010:
Bob,
You should measure a few ohms resistance between F+ anf F-, as they
connect to the two ends of the field winding, through the brushes
and sliprings.–
The original message included these comments:
loose. I suspect that a wire is not connected inside. Ray,
got any idea how to test to see if I have a broken
connection inside before I pull it off?
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
