[E-Type] Lumenition Ignition & Tachometer Accuracy

E-Type
1

It appears that the Lumenition ignition system and the standard
Smiths tachometer, as found in my S2 4.2L are not compatible. The
tach error is about 150-200 rpm at idle, but becomes
significantly greater and erratic at higher rpm’s. A technician
at Nisonger Gauge Repair in NY suggests a complete rewiring of the
coil and Lumenition system to solve the problem (he even provided a
wiring diagram). I can’t believe that there is not an easier way
around his problem.

BTW, my tach is wired in series with the coil via two white wires
that plug into the rear of the tach.–
1971 4.2L S2 OTS
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2

Hi Jeff,

That’s the same problem that Steve Weinstein and I ran into when I installed
my new electronic ignition in his Series 2. From what I gather, it’s a
standard problem with these tachs, in spite of the fact that, according to
the Haynes manual, “The pulse lead (white) is wired in circuit with the S/W
terminal on the ignition coil and the ignition switch. [The tachometer’s]
performance is not affected by the setting of the distributor contact
points, by corrosion of the spark plug points or gap setting.” I’m trying
to find out what the problem is, so if you could send me Nisonger’s
suggested wiring change, perhaps it would shed some light on the subject.

Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Jag-Lovers Picnic at www.jag-lovers.org/events/event_view.php3?id=326

It appears that the Lumenition ignition system and the standard
Smiths tachometer, as found in my S2 4.2L are not compatible. The
tach error is about 150-200 rpm at idle, but becomes
significantly greater and erratic at higher rpm’s. A technician
at Nisonger Gauge Repair in NY suggests a complete rewiring of the
coil and Lumenition system to solve the problem (he even provided a
wiring diagram). I can’t believe that there is not an easier way
around his problem.

BTW, my tach is wired in series with the coil via two white wires
that plug into the rear of the tach.

1971 4.2L S2 OTS

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3

In reply to a message from Jeff Solomon sent Mon 26 Apr 2004:

Jeff,

There is a simple solution to the problem. Use a Pertronix, not a
Luminition. The Pertronix, it seems, does not effect the tach at
all, and eliminates the points. Also, at the same time, it is
easily removed and points replaced if the unit ever goes bad. I
have a unit sitting on the bench waiting for install, which I’m
delaying until Mike Eck can test out his new ignition unit on my
car.

Regards,
Steve Weinstein
'70 XKE FHC
'72 E-type 2+2–
The original message included these comments:

It appears that the Lumenition ignition system and the standard
Smiths tachometer, as found in my S2 4.2L are not compatible. The
tach error is about 150-200 rpm at idle, but becomes
significantly greater and erratic at higher rpm’s. A technician
at Nisonger Gauge Repair in NY suggests a complete rewiring of the
coil and Lumenition system to solve the problem (he even provided a
wiring diagram). I can’t believe that there is not an easier way
around his problem.
BTW, my tach is wired in series with the coil via two white wires
that plug into the rear of the tach.

–
Steve Weinstein
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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4

Mike Eck,

How’s about letting your device work with either
Pertronix or points?

Jerry

Jerry Mouton '64 E Type FHC “Laissez les bons temps rouler!”
Jaguar Owner’s North American Tour - http://jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004----- Original Message -----
From: “Steve Weinstein” srw_jags@yahoo.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Lumenition Ignition & Tachometer Accuracy

In reply to a message from Jeff Solomon sent Mon 26 Apr 2004:

Jeff,

There is a simple solution to the problem. Use a Pertronix, not a
Luminition. The Pertronix, it seems, does not effect the tach at
all, and eliminates the points. Also, at the same time, it is
easily removed and points replaced if the unit ever goes bad. I
have a unit sitting on the bench waiting for install, which I’m
delaying until Mike Eck can test out his new ignition unit on my
car.

Regards,
Steve Weinstein
'70 XKE FHC
'72 E-type 2+2

The original message included these comments:

It appears that the Lumenition ignition system and the standard
Smiths tachometer, as found in my S2 4.2L are not compatible. The
tach error is about 150-200 rpm at idle, but becomes
significantly greater and erratic at higher rpm’s. A technician
at Nisonger Gauge Repair in NY suggests a complete rewiring of the
coil and Lumenition system to solve the problem (he even provided a
wiring diagram). I can’t believe that there is not an easier way
around his problem.
BTW, my tach is wired in series with the coil via two white wires
that plug into the rear of the tach.

–
Steve Weinstein
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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5

In reply to a message from Steve Weinstein sent Mon 26 Apr 2004:

Steve: What is the difference between the Lumenition & the
Portronix units & where would I find the portronix?
Jeff–
1971 4.2L S2 OTS
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6

In reply to a message from Mike Eck sent Mon 26 Apr 2004:

Mike: If you have access to a Fax machine, send me the number
(offline if you choose) and I will fax you a copy of the wiring
diagram that Nisonger sent me.
Jeff Solomon

jsolo61654@aol.com–
1971 4.2L S2 OTS
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7

Hi Jerry,

That’s an idea, but it defeats some of the features of my design. I wanted
some features that weren’t generally available, and wanted to be sure of the
quality of the components that were used. These are the features that I
included in its design:

� Uses the original points and condenser, so there are no modifications to
the distributor. You don’t even need to open it to install the ignition.

� Uses the original coil or a Sports coil, but with low points trigger
current so the points should never wear out or need adjustment. However,
the points still carry enough current to burn off any oil or oxide film.

� Connects to the three existing posts on the distributor and coil, so
installation is simple.

� Housed in a small die-cast aluminum enclosure with mounting ears. It’s
about the size of a cigarette pack, and mounts to the frame rail with wire
ties.

� Uses a 20A, 500V MOSFET for switching, with a high-speed 20A snubber
diode and a 125�C, 1000 volt capacitor. (Large safety margin)

� Output is over-voltage and over-current protected, using modern
Polyswitch, MOV and TVS surge suppressors.

� Has an electronic dwell-extender circuit, so the coil spends most of its
time charging, independent of the points setting. Dwell is independent of
the points gap, so the gap is largely irrelevant.

� Only powers the coil when the engine is running, even if the points are
closed. With the engine off you can listen to the radio or perform
electrical testing without burning out the coil or points.

� Has a switch on the side that instantaneously and conveniently
disconnects the electronics and connects the points back to the coil in
case of failure. You don’t need to try to re-install the points in the dark
by the side of the road as you would if a Pertronix failed. Just flip the
switch and your car is back to normal.

� Includes a rev limiter which uses sequential spark stealing when the
pre-set RPM limit is reached. The engine simply loses power at the redline
to save your engine even if your tach is inaccurate.

� Has an LED on the case which lights when the points are open, making
static timing easy and convenient.

I have already hand-build a couple for my own use, and they seem to work
fine, but I still need to address the S2 tach problem. Using the original
points allows you to revert back to your standard ignition system should
this one ever fail. Because of the switch it will never leave you stranded,
and being stranded is a big worry for me.

Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Jag-Lovers Picnic at www.jag-lovers.org/events/event_view.php3?id=326

Mike Eck,

How’s about letting your device work with either
Pertronix or points?

Jerry

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8

Hi Jerry,

You could mount it in the boot if you wanted, or behind the center panel if
there is room. I connected my original one with a 25’ wire so I could play
with it inside the car. As of now the rev limit is programmed into the
processor chip when it is manufactured, although I could make it externally
adjustable if it were important. I imagine the rev limit would be something
you would set and forget, so all that adjustability would just add
complexity that would only be used once.

Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Jag-Lovers Picnic at www.jag-lovers.org/events/event_view.php3?id=326

Sounds great – but I’d have to dig into the distributor to
make it work. Let us know when you have something
you want to sell…

Could it mount behind the pull-down center panel
(for those of us who can pull it down ; -)

How do you set the rev limit?

Jerry

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9

Hi Jeff,

Thanks, I received your diagram. In the Nisonger circuit they wired the
power directly to the coil (instead of through the tach) and put the tach
between the coil and the points replacement circuit. I have a S2 tach
coming so I’ll soon know more about its requirements.

Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Jag-Lovers Picnic at www.jag-lovers.org/events/event_view.php3?id=326

Mike: I sent you an email with an attachment (.jpg image) of the
wiring diagram I received from Nisonger. Your thoughts ???
Let me know when you’re ready to market your ‘‘little black box’’
sounds like something every e-type owner would like to have.

1971 4.2L S2 OTS

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10

Sounds great – but I’d have to dig into the distributor to
make it work. Let us know when you have something
you want to sell…

Could it mount behind the pull-down center panel
(for those of us who can pull it down ; -)

How do you set the rev limit?

Jerry

Jerry Mouton '64 E Type FHC “Laissez les bons temps rouler!”
Jaguar Owner’s North American Tour - http://jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004----- Original Message -----
From: “Mike Eck” mikeeck@optonline.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Lumenition Ignition & Tachometer Accuracy

Hi Jerry,

That’s an idea, but it defeats some of the features of my design. I
wanted
some features that weren’t generally available, and wanted to be sure of
the
quality of the components that were used. These are the features that I
included in its design:

� Uses the original points and condenser, so there are no modifications
to
the distributor. You don’t even need to open it to install the ignition.

� Uses the original coil or a Sports coil, but with low points trigger
current so the points should never wear out or need adjustment. However,
the points still carry enough current to burn off any oil or oxide film.

� Connects to the three existing posts on the distributor and coil, so
installation is simple.

� Housed in a small die-cast aluminum enclosure with mounting ears. It’s
about the size of a cigarette pack, and mounts to the frame rail with wire
ties.

� Uses a 20A, 500V MOSFET for switching, with a high-speed 20A snubber
diode and a 125�C, 1000 volt capacitor. (Large safety margin)

� Output is over-voltage and over-current protected, using modern
Polyswitch, MOV and TVS surge suppressors.

� Has an electronic dwell-extender circuit, so the coil spends most of
its
time charging, independent of the points setting. Dwell is independent of
the points gap, so the gap is largely irrelevant.

� Only powers the coil when the engine is running, even if the points are
closed. With the engine off you can listen to the radio or perform
electrical testing without burning out the coil or points.

� Has a switch on the side that instantaneously and conveniently
disconnects the electronics and connects the points back to the coil in
case of failure. You don’t need to try to re-install the points in the
dark
by the side of the road as you would if a Pertronix failed. Just flip the
switch and your car is back to normal.

� Includes a rev limiter which uses sequential spark stealing when the
pre-set RPM limit is reached. The engine simply loses power at the
redline
to save your engine even if your tach is inaccurate.

� Has an LED on the case which lights when the points are open, making
static timing easy and convenient.

I have already hand-build a couple for my own use, and they seem to work
fine, but I still need to address the S2 tach problem. Using the original
points allows you to revert back to your standard ignition system should
this one ever fail. Because of the switch it will never leave you
stranded,
and being stranded is a big worry for me.

Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Jag-Lovers Picnic at www.jag-lovers.org/events/event_view.php3?id=326

Mike Eck,

How’s about letting your device work with either
Pertronix or points?

Jerry

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11

In reply to a message from Jerry Mouton sent Tue 27 Apr 2004:

Mike: I sent you an email with an attachment (.jpg image) of the
wiring diagram I received from Nisonger. Your thoughts ???
Let me know when you’re ready to market your ‘‘little black box’’
sounds like something every e-type owner would like to have.–
1971 4.2L S2 OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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12

In reply to a message from Jeff Solomon sent Tue 27 Apr 2004:

Jeff,
Would you mind sending that to me as well?–
The original message included these comments:

Mike: I sent you an email with an attachment (.jpg image) of the
wiring diagram I received from Nisonger. Your thoughts ???
Let me know when you’re ready to market your ‘‘little black box’’
sounds like something every e-type owner would like to have.

1971 4.2L S2 OTS

–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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13

Mike,

I always figured I’d want to set the rev limit
to 5500 for autocrossing, where you run
there for a split second, lower on track where you might
want to avoid the stress of 5500 when the car is
going hard for many minutes at at time. Not sure
whether it would make any difference, but i am glad
to have the adjustment on the Pertronix rev limiter.

Jery

Jerry Mouton '64 E Type FHC “Laissez les bons temps rouler!”
Jaguar Owner’s North American Tour - http://jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004----- Original Message -----
From: “Mike Eck” mikeeck@optonline.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Lumenition Ignition & Tachometer Accuracy

Hi Jerry,

You could mount it in the boot if you wanted, or behind the center panel
if
there is room. I connected my original one with a 25’ wire so I could
play
with it inside the car. As of now the rev limit is programmed into the
processor chip when it is manufactured, although I could make it
externally
adjustable if it were important. I imagine the rev limit would be
something
you would set and forget, so all that adjustability would just add
complexity that would only be used once.

Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Jag-Lovers Picnic at www.jag-lovers.org/events/event_view.php3?id=326

Sounds great – but I’d have to dig into the distributor to
make it work. Let us know when you have something
you want to sell…

Could it mount behind the pull-down center panel
(for those of us who can pull it down ; -)

How do you set the rev limit?

Jerry

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo

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14

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Tue 27 Apr 2004:

Ray: I sent you a copy of the wiring diagram via email…

 Do you think this will work?--

1971 4.2L S2 OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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15

In reply to a message from Jeff Solomon sent Mon 26 Apr 2004:

Jeff,

The Pertronix is available from most of the ‘‘usual suspects’’ and
also at many regular auto parts stores. Be sure it’s for the Lucas
22D distributor, negative ground. I forget the part number. I’ve
noticed that prices vary widely. You can find it sometimes on Ebay
for around $65. Just make sure that it’s for the right distributor.

If Mike Eck’s little aluminum box ends up working, I may not even
install my Pertronix, and just go with Mike’s gizmo. I like the
idea of the rev limiter, which definitely works (we tested it). I
also like the idea that if it can be mounted out of sight
(potentially in the interior) and has the switch to revert to the
points system.

Regards,
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

Steve: What is the difference between the Lumenition & the
Portronix units & where would I find the portronix?
Jeff

–
Steve Weinstein
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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16

In reply to a message from Jeff Solomon sent Tue 27 Apr 2004:

Jeff,
Like Mike, I don’t clearly see what the problem with the
original hookup is, but my guess is the current drawn by the
Lumenition itself is responsible. The mod you mailed me removes
that from the equation. It’s certainly easy enough to make a
couple of long jumper wires and try it out. I honestly never have
understood the logic behind that inductive hookup…–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Tue 27 Apr 2004:
Ray: I sent you a copy of the wiring diagram via email…
Do you think this will work?

1971 4.2L S2 OTS

–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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