[E-Type] Mangoletsi throttle cable conversion kit

I’ve ordered this from SNG Barratt for a series 1 4.2 LHD.They sent
an email today saying there will be a delay in shipping. The first
person fitting the kit on a LHD was having trouble with the
throttle pedal fitment. If that person is on the list I would like
to know what you think.Off list if necessary.–
Nick 67 E-Type 67 S-Type 65 S-Type 96VDP 95XJR 96XJR
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In reply to a message from Nick Hand sent Mon 17 Mar 2014:

Julian Barratt reported on this in the latest E-Type Magazine.
Seems the problem is variation in the build dimensions between
cars which can vary up to 10mm for some reason on LHD. They
have a fix and are rolling it out. Great product by the way so
worth waiting for. It will transform your driving experience.
Covered 4,000 miles with mine (RHD) and I am delighted - fuel
economy better by 15% and better throttle control througout
the range.

David–
The original message included these comments:

I’ve ordered this from SNG Barratt for a series 1 4.2 LHD.They sent
an email today saying there will be a delay in shipping. The first
person fitting the kit on a LHD was having trouble with the
throttle pedal fitment. If that person is on the list I would like
to know what you think.Off list if necessary.


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Nick Hand sent Mon 17 Mar 2014:

I’m the culprit. I have been fitting the cable conversion
to each of my cars. I have been working closely with the
good folks at SNGB in working out the kinks. I am looking
forward to a test drive and report as soon as the snow
melts–
Gary Herzberg, 63 3.8 FHC 66 Series 1 OTS, 98 xk8
Montana, United States
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In reply to a message from Gary Herzberg sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

I realize this might be considered a stupid question and
some may ask ‘‘Why bother?’’ but is the Mangoletsi kit
suitable to being used with Strombergs?–
Craig Gilbert - '68 E-Type FHC - RIP
Birmingham, AL, United States
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

OK David, I have to bite on that one! ‘‘Fuel economy better by
15%’’ attributable to a throttle cable conversion. Can I
recommend some of Lloyd’s go faster stripes…:slight_smile:

-David–
The original message included these comments:

Covered 4,000 miles with mine (RHD) and I am delighted - fuel
economy better by 15% and better throttle control througout


http://tinyurl.com/b4fdupp XK140MC OTS, S2 XKE OTS, XK8 OTS
Monterey CA, United States
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In reply to a message from davidxk sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Yup. That one caught my interest, too. One doesn’t over-rev as
much??–
The original message included these comments:

OK David, I have to bite on that one! ‘‘Fuel economy better by
15%’’ attributable to a throttle cable conversion. Can I
recommend some of Lloyd’s go faster stripes…:slight_smile:
The original message included these comments:

Covered 4,000 miles with mine (RHD) and I am delighted - fuel
economy better by 15% and better throttle control througout


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

David L.,

Me too. Having owned my car for 40 years, and having regarded the
throttle mechanism as an engineering triumph, and having driven the
car in competition for 10 years at least and numerous long distance
tours, my only question is ‘‘Whaaaa?’’

If you have a cable conversion that’s great! But if you are
sitting there thinking ‘‘I really need to upgrade my throttle
control to this cable deal’’, you don’t need it. If you are having
throttle problems, as with most E-Type systems, yours is mis-
adjusted or some part is broken. When in good condition it works
great and gives you something to wonder at (speaking for the LHD
3.8 system, check out your own). And unlike the cable systems, you
never have to worry about the cable fraying and catching in
the ‘‘on’’ position within its housing, or breaking when you least
expect it, as happened to my son’s Alfa GTV.

If’n it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If’n it is broke, fix it!

YMMV.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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2 Likes

In reply to a message from Nick Hand sent Mon 17 Mar 2014:

There are two Listers here who have tackled this interesting
opportunity in a somewhat different way:
http://forums.jag-lovers.org/av.php?1245707k55
http://forums.jag-lovers.org/av.php?1483431m10

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/av.php?1620997o14--
69 E-Type ots ,07 Miata ,'02 Miata,Cummins TD Dodge
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
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In reply to a message from davidxk sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

In summer 2012 we did 3,500 miles though France over a three
week period mostly on their ‘D’ roads which are empty and
un-policed. The driving style was ‘enthusiastic’ and we had
a great time. With EDIS/Megajolt fitted and running on
super-unleaded (99 octane) we averaged 18.5 mpg; car has a
2.88 diff, T5 box, 280bhp and 340lb/ft.

In 2013 we did a similar mileage through France on similar
roads (different route/destinations though) with a prototype
Mangoletsi throttle kit. Driving style was again
‘enthusiastic’ and we averaged 22 mpg (imperial). On our
return I spoke to John Mangoletsi about our experiences of
the throttle kit and happened to mention the marked
improvement in fuel consumption. He was appalled and would
not mention it in his advertising bumf predicting the exact
reaction several of you here have exhibited!

Now bear in mind we have done 45,000 miles on our European
jaunts over the last few years in this car and the worst
fuel consumption we have seen was 14.5mpg, getting up to
16.5mpg rebuilt SU’s/pre EDIS, 18.5mpg post EDIS. The reason
for the better mileage is obvious to anyone who has driven a
Mangoletsi equipped car - you have twice the pedal travel of
the stock system which gives you very accurate throttle
control to the point where it is rare, even on the most
spirited sections of the journey, do I ever reach WOT - it
is simply not necessary. Previously I would floor it out of
each corner but now I can modulate the throttle position
nicely simply because I have the luxury of more progressive
and longer travel.

I still maintain the two best things you can do to an E-Type
are EDIS/Megajolt and the Mangoletsi throttle. Once you have
driven one you will never go back but of course it is
difficult to communicate the experience to others as it is
all about feedback and touch. Quite frankly it is a ‘no-
brainer’ but requires a leap of faith, and that jump is more
than worth it.

And Jerry, you will be quicker on the track with one!

Regards

David

NB ‘Enthusiastic’ = new set of Michelin 185 XVS’s rear tyres
every 8,000 miles–
The original message included these comments:

OK David, I have to bite on that one! ‘‘Fuel economy better by
15%’’ attributable to a throttle cable conversion. Can I
recommend some of Lloyd’s go faster stripes…:slight_smile:


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

David,

I’m happy to believe your data. However, based on your
description, I suspect that the results would not be
repeatable for all of us. From your description, it seems
like the main contributor to your improved fuel consumption
is a change of driving style with the new throttle. The fact
that the cable throttle allowed you to change your previous
‘‘leadfoot’’ style, without impacting the cars performance is
indeed a vindication of the product when compared with the
setup of your previous mechanical linkage. I would however,
in support of Jerry’s comments, say that there is a lot of
scope for tuning the response of the mechanical linkage (in
the LHD variant at least), to optimize it’s characteristics.
In particular, you can take advantage of the non-linear
nature of the multiple-bellcrank linkage to vary the
sensitivity of the throttle to pedal movement at different
points across the range of pedal movement. I was initially
very unhappy with the way mine was set up, but after some
hours spent adjusting it, I am now very happy. In Jerry’s
words: Your Mileage May Vary… (as yours apparently did :slight_smile:

-David–
The original message included these comments:

Mangoletsi equipped car - you have twice the pedal travel of
the stock system which gives you very accurate throttle
control to the point where it is rare, even on the most
spirited sections of the journey, do I ever reach WOT - it
is simply not necessary. Previously I would floor it out of
each corner but now I can modulate the throttle position
nicely simply because I have the luxury of more progressive
and longer travel.


http://tinyurl.com/b4fdupp XK140MC OTS, S2 XKE OTS, XK8 OTS
Monterey CA, United States
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In reply to a message from davidxk sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

David

The RHD throttle assembly is far more direct than the LHD
one but even then the biggest problem is the fact the
linkage is fixed with regard to the engine. In my case I was
constantly having to compensate for the engine twisting on
its mountings due to torque. This meant when attacking a
corner the throttle position would move of its own accord
which meant having to modulate to compensate. Best example I
can give you, which seems to be typical of many E-Type’s
driven quickly, is coming to a halt after a spirited run on
a winding road (I know you don’t have many of those over
there :slight_smile: ). The revs rarely seem to drop back to 800rpm
because the engine has moved on its mounts relative to the
bulkhead so a bit of throttle is still applied. Blipping the
throttle settles things of course (twists the engine on its
mounts) but once you notice the effect you begin to
extrapolate to what is happening on the road. Try it next
time you are out. With the Magoletsi system I always get a
rock solid 800rpm no matter how much I stress the car. Hence
my comment that Jerry would be someone who would make good
use it.

As regards the setup of my original linkage it was done by
CMC who really worked on it to try and improve my driving
experience, and those guys are good. The Mangoletsi system
beat their efforts though and they now fit the cable
throttle system almost as a matter of course.

Regards

David–
The original message included these comments:

I’m happy to believe your data. However, based on your
description, I suspect that the results would not be
points across the range of pedal movement. I was initially
very unhappy with the way mine was set up, but after some
hours spent adjusting it, I am now very happy. In Jerry’s
words: Your Mileage May Vary… (as yours apparently did :slight_smile:


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Gary Herzberg sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Hi Gary, is it a straight forward installation? Do they plan on
sending you a redesigned throttle pedal?[that was the issue
correct?] Snows gone in Oklahoma were ready to go!!!–
The original message included these comments:

I’m the culprit. I have been fitting the cable conversion
to each of my cars. I have been working closely with the
good folks at SNGB in working out the kinks. I am looking
forward to a test drive and report as soon as the snow
melts


Nick 67 E-Type 67 S-Type 65 S-Type 96VDP 95XJR 96XJR
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

I have never had those problems. Perhaps you need to get a
LHD car ; -) Properly installed, the levers on the carb
throttle shaft have a free motion center part that
eliminates feedback from small movements of the engine.
And, the shaft attachment to the bulkhead allows motion to
free the engine from the body.

And the engine should not be moving on its mounts other
than vibrations over center as allowed by the very stiff
rubber. A high idle after spirited driving – (few ending
roads? Have you seen Ginger’s video of our jaunt over the
Santa Cruz mountains in my back yard, or read Chuck G’s
description of our little play there? ; -) – can be a
symptom of poorly adjusted throttle levers (insufficient
free play allowed) or something poorly lubed and so
sticking.

Not sure, but of course replacing all that with a new
setup, Magnoletsi or good stock parts, will eliminate any
wear/lube problems, for sure.

Hey, go for it! I sure agree with folks who find upgrades
they like and use them. I just want to clarify for new
owners and the un-upgraded that as nice as these are, they
are not really necessary if the original stuff is well-
maintained and adjusted. You got the dough, have at it.
But the E-Type is quite spectacular without any of it.

Jerry

Jerry–
The original message included these comments:

The RHD throttle assembly is far more direct than the LHD
one but even then the biggest problem is the fact the
linkage is fixed with regard to the engine. In my case I was
constantly having to compensate for the engine twisting on
its mountings due to torque. This meant when attacking a
corner the throttle position would move of its own accord
which meant having to modulate to compensate. Best example I


Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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1 Like

In reply to a message from mouton sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Hear, hear!–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from N�ck sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Your loss.

David–
The original message included these comments:

Hear, hear!


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Unperceived, but if nothing else I’m now looking forward to trying
out somebody’s converted throttle E-type, if anyone within 100km of
Niagara wants to exchange keys for a half hour. I might be
smitten. :o)–
The original message included these comments:

Your loss.


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Stuff the cable operated throttle and enhanced throttle
control. B*gger the 5 speed box and 2.88 diff. Hang the
EDIs/Megajolt. I want to have a 280 bhp 340 ft lbs engine
in my car!

Not sure about trashing a pair of Michelins every 8k miles
though.

My original throttle control is lubricated by 47 years of
rust paint grit and oil. It works fine for me. I quite
like the fact that I only have to lean on the pedal to
accelerate, and maintaining a steady speed on flat roads
requires no effort.

If my throttle gets a bit stiff, I’ll take the whole lot off
and clean it. It’ll then be good for another 47 years.–
The original message included these comments:

super-unleaded (99 octane) we averaged 18.5 mpg; car has a
2.88 diff, T5 box, 280bhp and 340lb/ft.


Chris Fell, '67 S1 2+2.
Salisbury, UK, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Chris Fell sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

Ha, what a great tangent.
If one end of the throttle feel range is a rusty tractor hand lever
with serations and the smooth end of the range is a ‘‘fly by wire’’
throttle with light constant pressure…I’d put my Jag’s action
nearer the tractor end.

Its a bit notchy in its operation. Yes - I have taken it apart and
lubed all pivots. I wouldn’t say its annoying enough to pay the
rather large tab on the Mangoletsi, however.

I find my right foot ‘‘likes’’ to find the bottom of the pedal near
the floor. The leverage there is reduced, making it move in larger
increments. IF I move my foot to the top of the pedal modulation is
much smoother but its uncomfortable.

It’s the contour of the floor, where my heel rests normally, that’s
the real issue. Oh yes and my size 9’s.
Dave–
1969 BRG OTS
Skaneateles, NY, United States
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In reply to a message from David Ahlers sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

I’ve not driven David Jones’ car but I’ve tried the
throttle action and it’s very smooth. It’s also adjustable
for leverage/responsiveness due to the various linkage
tweaks possible in the design. Of course being RHD the
pedal is not constrained in its potential travel by the
proximity of the tunnel/bulkhead frame channel that sits
immediately behing the LHD organ pedal.

I will be curious to hear whether this limits the
adjustability of the LHD version, since there is only so
far your foot can press down before hitting sheet metal
and the organ pedal already uses the full range. unless
one sere to move the base pivot point rearwards away from
the bulkhead there doesn’t seem any obvious way of
increasing the arc, although ‘effort’ could be reduced for
the same arc, presumably at the cost of travel elsewhere
in the system.

my cars have all been 4.2 LHD except the S3 OTS which uses
a different pedal anyway. The 4.2 system for both drive
sides is not as slick as the 3.8, due to the extra (crude
bent-rod) drop link and scuzzy grommet pivot needed to
reach the underslung carb linkage.

Once underway, I’m content with the workings of the
lubed/adjusted system but the transition from idle to
drive-off isn’t the sweetest and I’m sure David’s must be
nicer in that situation.

It seems inherently unlikely that smoothness by itself
would lead to a massive 15% fuel saving unless perhaps one
drove permanently in London traffic, or Manhattan where I
was yesterday. David prefers the wide open spaces so I’m
not surprised Mangoletsi didn’t want to be associated with
such a claim. I don’t doubt it happened, but swapping one
mechanism for another in largely open road driving won’t
have been the sole reason I suspect.

Pete–
1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

It’s obvious you’re a big fan of the throttle cable system,
David, and are disappointed that the e-type community has
‘failed to support it’.

In the end it is not the responsibility of the market to
support a product. It is the responsibility of the vendor to
effectively market it. So given that, lets look at the
throttle cable in the context of the 4P’s of Marketing (see
wikipedia for more details).

  1. Product - A product is seen as an item that satisfies what
    a consumer demands.

The e-type throttle system is a Rube Goldberg contraption of
the first order. Lots of points of wear and adjustment. I
certainly see the potential value of an alternative, but many
others don’t.

  1. Price - The amount a customer pays for the product. When
    setting a price, the marketer must be aware of the customer
    perceived value for the product.

That last part is important. In the US (the largest market
for the e-type and hence the largest market for upgrades) the
throttle cable costs $870. That’s a lot of money in absolute
terms. That point about ‘‘perceived value’’ is critical though.
The expectations in the US for throttle cables & linkages from
Jegs or Summit Racing is that $100 is a premium price (for say
Lokar). So even adjusting for Jag-flation, $900 is a hefty
premium.

Plus, at $900 you are now competing with other ‘‘investments’’
like a Mig welder, a 2-stage compressor, a new hood/top, etc.

I’m sure exchange rates account for a lot of the price but
then again as a vendor you need to find a way to deliver your
product at the right price. Price is set at what people in
the market at willing to pay, not what the vendor wants to -
or must - charge.

Promotion - All of the methods of communication that a
marketer may use to provide information to different parties
about the product.

If it wasnt for your posts on Jag-Lovers and E-type, I don’t
think I would have ever heard of the throttle cables. Nuff’
said.

Place - Refers to providing the product at a place which is
convenient for consumers to access.

In the US (again the largest market) the cable is available
only from SNGB. But it is almost impossible to find on their
website (which has issues beyond the cable vendor’s control).
On Chrome, the search box on the home page is covered by links
for misc parts. If you can find just the right spot and click
you can get the insertion point into the search box. Enter
‘‘throttle cable’’ (seems logical, right?), press Return and
wah-lah…

There were no product items found that matched your search
criteria.

Well, damn. Turns out the search box requires you to know the
part number in advance. If you’re really determined, you can
eventually find the throttle cables. There are four listed
but good luck figuring out which if any will work with your
car (SU vs Stangleberg, LHD vs RHD, etc).

For a product to be successful, one must execute well on all
four P’s.

Note that I used my investment budget on EDIS. :slight_smile:

Jim–
The original message included these comments:

Your loss.
David


70 E-type OTS
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