[E-Type] Missing data plates

I am looking at a 1967 Etype series 1.5 that has been
Restored but is missing most of its data plates.

What is the impact on value if numbers cannot be confirmed
through Jaguar Heritage?

It is missing the builders plate, body number plate
behind license plate, body Number stamped on front picture
frame by right Front shock and the plate on the door
frame. There is a stamped engine number and most likely a
gear box number. Could not see the engine number above the
oil filter. The seller is trying to find the original
chassis/VIN that was registered prior to the to government
assigning a 17 digit VIN that doesn’t obviously include
the original chassis number.

The car is in very good shape with non standard
restorations such as triple Weber carbs, covered
headlights, wider tires and rims, upgraded cooling system,
missing spare tire and and jack

It is setup as a nice driver but not a show car

Insights would be appreciated

Lyle–
Ferniejag
Fernie BC, Canada
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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

I think I would run, not walk away from this car. I could
understand a data plate going missing during a rebuild but not the
stamped number on the picture frame

Steve–
PKN
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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

It is conceivable the body was caustic dipped to remove paint and
rust without having had the body and data plates removed. They’re
aluminum and would have dissolved in the process. If the body was
not dipped one has to seriously wonder why the number plates are
absent. There should be a number stamped above the oil filter if it
is a '67 E-type engine and it should begin with 7E1. The lack of a
number stamped on the picture frame means it has been replaced -
not altogether unusual but added to the absense of the other
identifying numbers on the car raises red flags. There are two
things you should do regardless. First is to go to the ICBC site
and get the free vehicle status report that will tell you if the
car is listed as ‘‘normal’’, ‘‘rebuilt’’ or ‘‘salvage’’. If you want to
pay $70 (which sounds to me like a wise investment before you
decide to purchase) you’ll get a whole lot more information on the
car. Also get the engine number then go to XKEDATA.com and compare
it to those listed for 1967 E-types of whatever body style it is.
Good luck.

http://www.icbc.com/registration-licensing/buy-vehicle/buy-
used/vehicle-history–
Nick Saltarelli - 1968 E-type S1� OTS, 1954 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

I agree, I would not buy this car. Buying an E-Type that turns out
to have problems can be a very, very expensive experience indeed
(and you don’t get that money back!). I’d be looking for a
different car with a less shaky provenance.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

I would add that, even if the owner does come up with a vin and
registration number, you would want to actully trace the
ownership back through a few owners to verify it is correct VIN.
By trace back, I mean to contact them and verify it is the same car.

Like the others, this is very suspicious. It could be a careless
restoration or it could be a different VIN.
How in the world did it end up in Fernie!!

Yours from Vancouver!!–
Dennis Vancouver 69 Roadster
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Lyle,
There is a lot to consider with this. Folks can buy entire new bodies
for restoration and drop their old hardware in and its considered
acceptable so original numbers/metal is not always important. You
will likely find that some if not most prefer the matching numbers but
not all. The biggest fear with no numbers is if the car’s history
were to reappear some day, with some form of legal proof of ownership
you’d loose your car. The fact that the gov. has put their ID on it
should be good enough however, and also proof that a previous owner
had to prove he actually owned the car with a complete paper trail.
There are a few infamous law suits on very valuable cars where several
people own bits of cars and have built whole cars out of the pieces
they possessed. In the end, by law, whoever has the most complete
paper trail, not the most parts, will end up with the car. Not
suggesting you should not buy it but if it were me I would sit down
with your local motor vehicle authority and get some solid facts on
how secure their 17 digit number is. If they can promise that their
ID trumps whatever else might come up, although nearly impossible
someone could find and ID the car now, then its safe to buy the car.
As far as reduction in value, it will only reduce the value so far as
it will make the next buyer skeptical just as you are and he/she will
move on to another car with good numbers and title as I’m sure you
would if there were an equal car with all its numbers intact. Number
1, make sure someone can’t take the car from you, second assume you’ll
have some trouble selling it. If you don’t plan to sell it for many
years then only worry about number 1 and have fun with it. Oh… I
assume you don’t plan to show the car in a concourse, no data plate
would be a problem in that case.
pauls

I am looking at a 1967 Etype series 1.5 that has been
Restored but is missing most of its data plates.

What is the impact on value if numbers cannot be confirmed
through Jaguar Heritage?

It is missing the builders plate, body number plate
behind license plate, body Number stamped on front picture
frame by right Front shock and the plate on the door
frame. There is a stamped engine number and most likely a
gear box number. Could not see the engine number above the
oil filter. The seller is trying to find the original
chassis/VIN that was registered prior to the to government
assigning a 17 digit VIN that doesn’t obviously include
the original chassis number.

The car is in very good shape with non standard
restorations such as triple Weber carbs, covered
headlights, wider tires and rims, upgraded cooling system,
missing spare tire and and jack

It is setup as a nice driver but not a show car

Insights would be appreciated

Lyle
<<<<<<<<<<From: “Ferniejag” lyle.skaien@shaw.ca
Subject: [E-Type] Missing data plates


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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

Presumably the 17 number VIN is irremovably stamped or
plated onto the body somewhere? There must be an obvious
paper trail for that and someone scrabbling round to find
a prior number sounds a bit fishy. Bitsas do exist though,
and if the authorities register them they can be legit in
themselves. But I’d think there is a significant value
difference between a genuine but non numbers matching car
and a total Bitsa with no traceable Jag Car or Body Number
origins. Better check the engine was at least an E-type
not a sedan, not that I have any problem with sedan
engines in otherwise bona fide E-types. It is not
impossible that the only traceable E-type part is the
transmission and someone built a car around a short tail
gearbox. If the car is a 2+2 (is it?) then even the
gearbox may be from a sedan…

The ‘upgrades’ like Webers and cooling system and the
missing parts suggest to me the car was not restored crom
an existing E-type. I suspect it was built from the
cheapest non-genuine parts he could find to make a
complete car. The correct carbs, jack, radiator etc. are
dearer than aftermarket, so someone wanting to cobble a
runner together would buy the cheap stuff and describe
those pieces as upgrades.

It may be a fine car but unless you are certain that even
your heirs won’t want to sell it, or you get it for a
rock-bottom price, it’s a risky proposition.

Pete

Having lost two structurally-perfect E-types last year, it
upsets me that those bodies are doubtless in someone’s
garage as part of other cars.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

Restored but is missing most of its data plates.
What is the impact on value if numbers cannot be confirmed
through Jaguar Heritage?
It is missing the builders plate, body number plate
behind license plate, body Number stamped on front picture
frame by right Front shock and the plate on the door
frame. There is a stamped engine number and most likely a
gear box number. Could not see the engine number above the
oil filter. The seller is trying to find the original
chassis/VIN that was registered prior to the to government
assigning a 17 digit VIN that doesn’t obviously include


1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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So what do y’all do with the “extra” wire which leads to the windscreen
washer motor when you buy a repro? And which wire is extra? The originals
(and most looms, new or otherwise) have three wires going to the motor. The
reproduction motors have a total of two connectors on them. As usual…

Roger Los
'61 OTS______________________________________________________
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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

I’m guessing Coupe converted to OTS.

If you have the numbers it’s pretty easy to reproduce the data
plate and the frame stamps so why wouldn’t you?

Stewart–
The original message included these comments:

It is missing the builders plate, body number plate
behind license plate, body Number stamped on front picture


Stewart65E
Auckland, New Zealand
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In reply to a message from Ferniejag sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

If you have the orginal VIN from the PO, as it appears you do, have
you checked it on xkedata.com? If it is registered there it may
help to provide some of the missing numbers and allow an
application for the heritage certificate. If it is not on xkedata
and you cannot locate the engine and tran numbers you might want to
take a pass on this particular car.

Let us know what you find out.–
The original message included these comments:

frame. There is a stamped engine number and most likely a
gear box number. Could not see the engine number above the
oil filter. The seller is trying to find the original
chassis/VIN that was registered prior to the to government
assigning a 17 digit VIN that doesn’t obviously include
the original chassis number.


Ralph, 1970 FHC, 1R27295
Coastal NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from Roger Los sent Thu 29 Aug 2013:

Original Lucas 2SJ motor had three wires, one of which allowed
the operation of the ‘timed’ wash. It operated via a bi-
metalic strip inside the motor housing. This was later
replaced by the Lucas 5SJ motor which only has two wires and
no ‘timed’ wash. Repro motors follow the two wire convention
so it is a matter of tucking the extra connector behind the
motor out of sight - not a problem as it is a second earth.

David–
The original message included these comments:

So what do y’all do with the ‘‘extra’’ wire which leads to the windscreen
washer motor when you buy a repro? And which wire is extra? The originals
(and most looms, new or otherwise) have three wires going to the motor. The
reproduction motors have a total of two connectors on them. As usual…


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from RGK sent Fri 30 Aug 2013:

If it were me I’d go and find another car unless this one is a
really good deal.–
Andrew B, 1967 S1.5 FHC, 1964 S1 OTS www.projectetype.com
Adelaide, Australia
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Never a good idea to buy ANY vehicle without it’s identification plates. If you are really really tempted to go for it at least do a police data check on what information you have. Any legit vendor would go out of their way to ensure id is with the vehicle. If stolen you never own the car no mater what you pay or receipt you may have, it is the insurance company who owns it. Your loss.

Umm, this thread is seven years old.

Didn’t notice that Scott, however the content of my message still applies to now and in the future should anyone find themselves in a similar situation.