[E-Type] motor mount Failure

E-Type
1

with all the talk about motor mounts recently I decided to
investigate mine. I noticed they were compressing and
sagging more than I thought they should be.

two years and less than 2500 miles ago I replaced the
original mounts with a set I got form my favorite west coast
seller. part number Co4794. listed as ENGINE MOUNTS, they
don’t offer a C18556 or uprated version anymore.

first a note about the bolt, or setscrew as they call it. my
original bolt fits fine, so does a new grade 8 bolt I
bought, both are standard thread, not metric.

I ordered a new set of the uprated version from Welsh and
began to swap them with the ‘‘old’’ mounts.

the uprated mounts are a lot taller than the original
design. I would be cautious if your bonnet is already close
to the top of your motor. You may also encounter throttle
linkage binding as I did, that meant another hour of
fiddling on something else too!!

I posted pics to my album of the old and new mounts.

if you have aftermarket mounts please look closely at them
after comparing my pictures.

you will notice in the picture of it in place the rubber is
visibly starting to crack and split under compression.
seemed like no big deal until I got it off. both had sagged
considerably but the right side mount had the threaded
portion delaminate from the rubber.

these are only TWO years old.

I don’t know what to suggest. but clearly these aftermarket
mounts are crap. and before you say, well they must be
bumper mounts, they sold them as engine mounts.

now they aren’t expensive, but the argument of buying from a
reputable seller has no merit, thats where these came from
and they are junk.

I am not blaming the seller, I buy a lot of parts from them
and I like their service. these are a cheap item, if they
cost me $100 each I would feel different. but I think its
important to watch your mounts if they are a new replacement
part from any seller. I am guessing they are coming from the
same worldwide distributor unless they are specifically made
or marked from a trusted source.

The Welsh uprated have a metal cone over the top of the
rubber, but there is still a stalk of rubber between that
and the base, looks like a potential weak point to me. Time
will tell. and of course there is no label as to country of
manufacture.

I hate to have to add motor mounts to my annual oil change
as a wear item. but it seems I might.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1462317295

Bob F
69 S2 OTS–
Bfastr
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2

“…but the argument of buying from a
reputable seller has no merit, thats where these came from
and they are junk…”

Then perhaps your reputable seller, isn’t as reputable as you once
thought. They sold you a piece of junk, and, they don’t sell the
correct Jaguar part, yet you consider them reputable?. Why on earth
they wouldn’t stock C18556 sounds very odd and not like someone who
really understands Jaguar parts.–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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3

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Les,

I am not married to any one supplier, and thankfully we
don’t have to be. We are very fortunate to have the options
these days for parts from all sorts of places.
I have spent thousands with XKS, and thousands with SNG, I
have had good and not so good parts from all of them, but I
am smart enough to shop around. and what I may deem poor
quality may meet the needs of somebody else.

like everything, its buyer beware. my point is only to
stress that don’t take for granted because a known seller is
selling this stuff its good, I have a couple of brake
bottles from SNG you can have as proof. I will give them
credit, they listened to people and improved them, and I
bought several variations until I got what I liked.

but if these molded rubber mounts come from the same
supplier to the vendors, which I am sure most do, then just
watch them closely. or plan on replacing them often.

Ill bet the cost of a pair from SNG that they are the same
quality. and unless the supplier can prove where they come
from you have now way of telling visually.

At least XKS sends the rubber bushings and stuff in the
original URO wrapper. they don’t peel them out and re-brand
it as something else leading you to believe its better.

and again, I have no allegiance to any seller, I shop them
all, but I am grateful we have that option, it wasn’t always
the case.

Bob F–
The original message included these comments:

Then perhaps your reputable seller, isn’t as reputable as you once
thought. They sold you a piece of junk, and, they don’t sell the
correct Jaguar part, yet you consider them reputable?. Why on earth
they wouldn’t stock C18556 sounds very odd and not like someone who
really understands Jaguar parts.

–
Bfastr
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4

In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Were the old ones the URO brand? I replaced mine this
Winter…Hopefully they will hold up better than yours did.
Edward–
It’s not a car, it’s a career! '70 OTS 4.2L
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5

Bob,
They might all come from the same supplier, I doubt it but it’s of
course possible, but that doesn’t mean they’re all manufactured to the
same specs. The Chinese make some cheap cr** as we all know but
undoubtedly they also make some good stuff…we’ll all find out
soon enough as their cars start arriving on the world’s markets.

During my recent issues with motor mounts, the supplier I use not only
dis their own tests here in the US but also had their operation in the
UK do the same test, and, also contacted their manufacturer to verify
their own tests. Again, I don’t know but somehow I doubt that URO
would go the same distance.

Turns out that some types of these particular parts do in fact have
different rubber properties than others so in your case, you might
well have been supplied a bumper mount but the supplier was ignorant
of the difference.

I believe John Walker is going to go the distance with URO and let us
all know the outcome, although I would imagine that would take some
time.

As you say, in the end it’s buyer beware but also, make educated decisions.–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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6

In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Hi Bob I think that the motor mount system that Jaguar uses
is not the best design to say the least. It needs to be
remembered that the mounts don’t just carry the weight of the
engine, they also carry the torque, a not inconsequential
figure, and as well g forces on a heavy upright engine. Usually
it’s the left mount that pulls apart because the torque wants
to spin the engine clockwise when viewed from the drivers seat.
I raced an e type and currently autocross one. My method of
dealing with this problem has been to firstly install a
horizontal engine brace on the right side. Secondly I drill the
big bolt in the mount through and as well through the flat
plate on the frame and put a long 1/4 bolt through that to the
back of the plate to take up the torque and g loads. It’s
worked for years - no pull outs but the mount still crushes.

I just measured the heights of a new original mount, and as
well one of the ‘‘uprated’’ mounts (the one with the metal cap).
The original’s uncrushed height is 1.125’’ - the uprated height
is 1.225. Given that they sit at about 45 degrees that would
raise the front of the engine half of the difference, or .050’’
which is probably not a worry.

I share your concerns about the uprated mount and it’s
potential strength. I suspect it was not meant to sit at a 45
degree angle. I’m going to install them in my car with a 4.7l
motor and autocross them so time will tell.–
68 E Type OTS, 67 E Type coupe, 07 XKR
Victoria, Canada
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7

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Edward, I have no clue who made mine. I bought them from
XKS unlimited in 2013. they could have just been a bad
batch. I installed and torqued them to 45 ft lbs. but the
separation is not in a twisting manner, its from sheer, or a
tear as they sagged down.

as for testing and going the distance, thats all well and
fine but for example there are three variations of the same
part number C18556 on SNG right now, all different prices,
but I see nothing about why one is worth more than the next.
so if they test and prove a part, tell me about it, I will
gladly pay for the better part, but if all I have is a low
resolution picture and ‘’ 6 cylinder’’ for a description do I
assume that more expensive equates to a better product?
If they are proud of the testing they do maybe they should
spend time to sell us on it.

Bob F–
Bfastr
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8

If you want to buy from SNG, give them a call and ask for Tony.On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Bfastr bfastr@cox.net wrote:

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Edward, I have no clue who made mine. I bought them from
XKS unlimited in 2013. they could have just been a bad
batch. I installed and torqued them to 45 ft lbs. but the
separation is not in a twisting manner, its from sheer, or a
tear as they sagged down.

as for testing and going the distance, thats all well and
fine but for example there are three variations of the same
part number C18556 on SNG right now, all different prices,
but I see nothing about why one is worth more than the next.
so if they test and prove a part, tell me about it, I will
gladly pay for the better part, but if all I have is a low
resolution picture and ‘’ 6 cylinder’’ for a description do I
assume that more expensive equates to a better product?
If they are proud of the testing they do maybe they should
spend time to sell us on it.

Bob F

–
Bfastr
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–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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9

In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Bob,

The ones I bought from XKs in
2007 with the 4xxx part number
collapsed to a worrying degree in
a couple of weeks, so I tossed
them and replaced them with the
updated ones (from SNG I think,
but am not sure). Interestingly
enough, I replaced the 4 engine
mounts on the XK140 in 2005 with
the same 4xxx parts from XKs, and
they looked fine when I removed
the engine a few weeks ago. So,
something changed in that period.
Bad batch, bumper mounts mixed up
with engine mounts, something
else, who knows?

-David–
http://tinyurl.com/zgjkej3 XK140MC OTS, S2 XKE OTS
Monterey CA, United States
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10

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Les, I think you missed my point.
I already bought replacements. I’m not calling Tony
everytime I want the complete description on a part.

I think we have gone off the rails, I’m not trying to be
argumentative. Just posting my experience.

My post is the item failed, maybe I bought the wrong part,
went to the wrong place, or installed it incorrectly. Or
was flat grifted and someone is having a laugh about it
now.

But as a heads up to anyone else unsure of the quality of
theirs, that was my experience.

Adios

Bob F–
Bfastr
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11

In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Sorry to hear this as I installed new mounts (brand URO
from Amazon) last fall.

I’ve covered 5000+ miles since then and they still look
like new - but time may be the enemy here rather than miles.

Anyway, I’ll keep and eye on them henceforth.–
The original message included these comments:

with all the talk about motor mounts recently I decided to
investigate mine. I noticed they were compressing and
sagging more than I thought they should be.
two years and less than 2500 miles ago I replaced the
original mounts with a set I got form my favorite west coast

–
Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
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12

In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Word of the day award!

‘‘Or was flat ‘grifted’ and someone is having a laugh about it
now.’’–
Craig Gilbert - '68 E-Type FHC - turned the corner!
Birmingham, AL, United States
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13

Bob,
That’s pretty ugly and scary. Not a lot of surface area for the
rubber to adhere too on the originals. I never examined them but
thought they would be more substantial than that. The torque of that
big 6 seems like it could pull one of those threaded portions right
out of that rubber any time it wanted to.
pauls

with all the talk about motor mounts recently I decided to
investigate mine. I noticed they were compressing and
sagging more than I thought they should be.

…I posted pics to my album of the old and new mounts.

if you have aftermarket mounts please look closely at them
after comparing my pictures…

…I am not blaming the seller, I buy a lot of parts from them
and I like their service. these are a cheap item, if they
cost me $100 each I would feel different. but I think its
important to watch your mounts if they are a new replacement
part from any seller. I am guessing they are coming from the
same worldwide distributor unless they are specifically made
or marked from a trusted source.

The Welsh uprated have a metal cone over the top of the
rubber, but there is still a stalk of rubber between that
and the base, looks like a potential weak point to me. Time
will tell. and of course there is no label as to country of
manufacture.

I hate to have to add motor mounts to my annual oil change
as a wear item. but it seems I might.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1462317295
<<<<<<<<<<<<<From: “Bfastr” bfastr@cox.net
Subject: [E-Type] motor mount Failure

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14

Bob,
My only point was that SNG for example have four motor mounts. If I
looked at them I wouldn’t have any idea which one to choose or why,
hence my suggestion to call them…but hey, everyone to their
own.On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Bfastr bfastr@cox.net wrote:

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Les, I think you missed my point.
I already bought replacements. I’m not calling Tony
everytime I want the complete description on a part.

I think we have gone off the rails, I’m not trying to be
argumentative. Just posting my experience.

My post is the item failed, maybe I bought the wrong part,
went to the wrong place, or installed it incorrectly. Or
was flat grifted and someone is having a laugh about it
now.

But as a heads up to anyone else unsure of the quality of
theirs, that was my experience.

Adios

Bob F

–
Bfastr
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–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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15

“… The torque of that
big 6 seems like it could pull one of those threaded portions right
out of that rubber any time it wanted to…”

So the fact that we’ve not heard of any that have done so (I haven’t
anyway) surely suggests that Jaguar engineers knew what they were
doing.–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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16

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Hi I am in the midst of a restoration of a 67 420. I ONLY use
nos parts for engine mounts. Have 2 E types as well and ALL
of them have nos mounts, which are vastly different from what
is on the market today. They are not tapered, but are
cylindrical and are high on the durometer scale. Very dense
but resilient rubber. They are not the finger soft ones the
usuals sell. Those I bought for bumper mounts. If you can
press right into the mounts with your fingers don t use them.
Regards,
Allen–
alodmd
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17

In reply to a message from alodmd sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Allen,

Did these NOS mounts come with a part number by any chance?
According to the parts books, the 3.8L S1 used part C4794,
which was changed to C18556 for the 4.2L S1 and S2. The
illustration of the parts in the parts books do appear to
be slightly different, though they are so small that I
can’t confirm that the earlier part is cylindrical, and the
later one tapered. The usuals are not consistent in which
of the two part numbers they give their parts. The URO
reproduction parts are widely available from numerous (at
least 10) vendors on Ebay, with prices from less than $5 to
more than $30, apparently for the identical part! I did
find one vendor in the UK who is selling a tapered part
C18556 which appears different (larger metal insert) than
the URO parts. This part is packaged in a bag with the
Jaguar logo on it, and ‘‘Made to Jaguar Specification in the
UK’’ printed on it.

-David–
The original message included these comments:

Hi I am in the midst of a restoration of a 67 420. I ONLY use
nos parts for engine mounts. Have 2 E types as well and ALL
of them have nos mounts, which are vastly different from what
is on the market today. They are not tapered, but are
cylindrical and are high on the durometer scale. Very dense
but resilient rubber. They are not the finger soft ones the
usuals sell. Those I bought for bumper mounts. If you can
press right into the mounts with your fingers don t use them.
Regards,
Allen

–
http://tinyurl.com/zgjkej3 XK140MC OTS, S2 XKE OTS
Monterey CA, United States
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18

In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Just replaced my motor mounts today. Mounts removed were 10
years old from XKs. They were very compressed and threaded
portion had slid downward, don’t know what was holding engine
in place.
New mounts from Welsh the uprated/competition ones. Two bolts
go through elongated holes’ tight fit.
The quality of rubber part for our cars is not good. Was under
car doing inspection and found resonator rubber mount failed,
wrapped
with wire until new part arrives. Also discovered radius arm
small end has separated after 10 years. Original parts had
lasted about 35 years.

Glenn
70 E–
melloyello
Lake Elsinore California, United States
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19

“… I did find one vendor in the UK who is selling a tapered part
C18556 which appears different (larger metal insert) than
the URO parts. This part is packaged in a bag with the
Jaguar logo on it, and ‘‘Made to Jaguar Specification in the
UK’’ printed on it…”

This is the part that I just fitted to my car. If it fails I’ll be
sure to let the forum and supplier know.On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:24 PM, davidxk dxlangley@sbcglobal.net wrote:

In reply to a message from alodmd sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Allen,

Did these NOS mounts come with a part number by any chance?
According to the parts books, the 3.8L S1 used part C4794,
which was changed to C18556 for the 4.2L S1 and S2. The
illustration of the parts in the parts books do appear to
be slightly different, though they are so small that I
can’t confirm that the earlier part is cylindrical, and the
later one tapered. The usuals are not consistent in which
of the two part numbers they give their parts. The URO
reproduction parts are widely available from numerous (at
least 10) vendors on Ebay, with prices from less than $5 to
more than $30, apparently for the identical part! I did
find one vendor in the UK who is selling a tapered part
C18556 which appears different (larger metal insert) than
the URO parts. This part is packaged in a bag with the
Jaguar logo on it, and ‘‘Made to Jaguar Specification in the
UK’’ printed on it.

-David

The original message included these comments:

Hi I am in the midst of a restoration of a 67 420. I ONLY use
nos parts for engine mounts. Have 2 E types as well and ALL
of them have nos mounts, which are vastly different from what
is on the market today. They are not tapered, but are
cylindrical and are high on the durometer scale. Very dense
but resilient rubber. They are not the finger soft ones the
usuals sell. Those I bought for bumper mounts. If you can
press right into the mounts with your fingers don t use them.
Regards,
Allen

–
http://tinyurl.com/zgjkej3 XK140MC OTS, S2 XKE OTS
Monterey CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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20

In reply to a message from melloyello sent Wed 4 May 2016:

Probably Sir Isaac Newton. :slight_smile:

Gravity–
The original message included these comments:

portion had slid downward, don’t know what was holding engine
in place.

–
John Walker, 1969 E-Type Coupe
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