[E-Type] New Article About Setting Corner Weights

I did some work on my 1967 E-Type 2+2 a few weeks ago to
investigate and set the corner weights. This started out as
an effort to get my ride heights set correctly but as I read
up on the subject, I realized that heights could affect
corner weights, possibly in an adverse way. So I bought a
set of scales and did the whole set-up. My car had been
completely torn apart so I had no baseline to start from. I
have posted a summary of my work and lots of boring details
in an article on my website. Here is the link:

http://newhillgarage.com/Page63.html

Summary of the summary is that front to rear static weight
balance on the 2+2 is very good at about 50/50. Due to it
being a LH drive car, the left side is certainly heavier
with the driver, battery, and fuel tank. I had to adjust
one torsion bar and all 4 rear shocks. Fortunately I have
adjustable spring perches. With work, I was able to get the
ride height leveled out and got fairly good numbers (in my
opinion) for the corner weights. It was an interesting
exercise.

This car was run at an HPDE this last weekend. Handling
remains very neutral, which is a great attribute for a
novice track guy like me.–
Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Nice writeup Harvey! I’m glad I don’t have the cash to buy
those scales! I read Puhn’s book back in my rally days and
always wanted to do it BUT I now know that I would never be
happy until I had all four corners spot on perfect.

See how it holds up after a month or two if you don’t mind.

Lester–
http://tinyurl.com/mqlgly '66 4.2 FHC
Louisiana, United States
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In reply to a message from saabguy sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Lester, I rode it hard at the HPDE and nothing fell off :slight_smile:
I will try and give some feedback in few weeks. Next two
weeks the car stays in the garage while I negotiate the
final days to my daughters wedding on May 29th. My right
hand is already numb from writing checks :)–
Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Harvey, very nice article. I went through the same on my race XKE.
Ended up with 600 each front and 611 and 615 on the rears with gas
and driver in car. Worth the effort in the long run. I don’t carry
a spare so relocated the battery to the spare area. Also lightened
the car a bit, hence the weights. I noticed in the article you
could not get any more negative camber. Contact me and I will tell
you how. 1/2+ is the spec but pretty much for bias ply tires.
Radials work much better at 0 to 1/2- , especially on a track. They
still will be just fine for the street. I am running -2 all around
and that seems to work best with the tires and suspension set up I
have.–
The original message included these comments:

Summary of the summary is that front to rear static weight
balance on the 2+2 is very good at about 50/50. Due to it
being a LH drive car, the left side is certainly heavier
with the driver, battery, and fuel tank. I had to adjust
one torsion bar and all 4 rear shocks. Fortunately I have
adjustable spring perches. With work, I was able to get the
ride height leveled out and got fairly good numbers (in my
opinion) for the corner weights. It was an interesting
exercise.


Dick Maury , Rebuild Dept.- Coventry West, JCNA President
Lithonia, GA, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

I lived and died (metaphorically speaking!) by Puhn’s book, and dog-
eared many a copy. I got to talk to Fred a bit back in the 80s,
just when I was coming into my own as a race car prep guy. At one
point, I nearly had that sucker memorized!

Along with Carroll Smith’s books, Puhn’s is a must-have. Great job,
Harvey on your write-up!–
The original message included these comments:

have posted a summary of my work and lots of boring details
in an article on my website. Here is the link:
http://newhillgarage.com/Page63.html


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 20 May 2010:

I recommend Puhn’s books on brakes and suspension. I think
I got both off of Amazon. He packs a lot of science into an
easy to understand style. And yes, I really like Carrol
Smith’s books, although it takes quite a time investment to
read the complete set.–
Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Harvey, that’s a good writeup, thanks.

Funny how light you found your 2+2 to be, since my S1 3.8 FHC with
similar contents had a similar weight (IIRC, I don’t have the docs
with me). I should recheck the weight at our next SCCA Divisional.

The factory 2580 lb weight – well, that was measured by the same
group that certified the 265 HP! Dream factory specifications!

I’m impressed with your deep exploration of the problem. I started
a similar effort about a decade ago and I’m still on step 2.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Harvey,

The balance was about perfect after hooking up the shocks, but with
the anti-roll bars the cross weights are different by about 100lb,
which is marginal I think. You might want to give it one more
shot.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

A couple of others to add to your collection.

[http://www.amazon.com/Race-Engineering-Mechanics-Paul-
Valkenburgh/dp/1557883661]

If yer a really big egghead:

[http://www.amazon.com/Race-Vehicle-Dynamics-book-
workbook/dp/0768001218]

Also, search Steve Smith’s website, for many others.–
The original message included these comments:

I recommend Puhn’s books on brakes and suspension. I think


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Jerry, the adverse effect of hooking up the sway bars did
not go unnoticed but without some sort of way to adjust
their length I was baffled on how to proceed. So I moved
ahead. Of course having even one sides link set up to make
the length adjustable would be the ticket. Now you’ve got
me thinking:) A project for after the wedding.–
The original message included these comments:

The balance was about perfect after hooking up the shocks, but with
the anti-roll bars the cross weights are different by about 100lb,


Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Wiggles, I have read both. Valkenburgh’s book is very ‘‘user
friendly’’ and a good read. I also read Milliken’s dynamics
book (plus his autobiography, which is also fascinating).
If I could absorb 1% of what that man knows I would be lucky!–
Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Harvey,

I have not looked, but I wonder if swapping ends on the anti-roll
bars could give a different weight due to irregulatities? Like
maybe they have taken a set with a little tilt? Not even sure they
can be used either way, but…

Actually a simple adjustable link which has to be readily available
from Pegasus Racing would probably be an easier solution…

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

While you’re at it, you might look into just making your own ARBs:
easy to do with ‘‘Stressproof,’’ and no heat treatment needed. You do
need a FLIPPIN’ big oxy-acetylene torch and a hefty jig, though!–
The original message included these comments:

ahead. Of course having even one sides link set up to make
the length adjustable would be the ticket. Now you’ve got


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Jerry, in my case I know that the LH side and the RH side
ride height are about 1/8’’ different, which means that for a
perfect torsion bar there will be some mis-match at the bolt
holes and thus a little pre-load. I just ran out of
patience adjusting those torsion bars. The adjustable link
will be the ticket.

It is interesting to see how the whole puzzle interacts.–
Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Wiggles, I’ll just use the acetylene bottom as ballast to
get the corner weights just perfect. While I’m at it I can
run a line from the bottle to the air filter plenum and have
my own on pass on demand boost system :)–
Harvey Ferris 67 2+2, 63 FHC, 67 2+2 www.newhillgarage.com
New Hill, NC, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Ahhhh…gonna equip the E with its own giggle gas, are ya?

That’s CHEATING, Harvey…but fu u u u un!–
The original message included these comments:

run a line from the bottle to the air filter plenum and have
my own on pass on demand boost system :slight_smile:


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

THEN…you add in the effects of roll couple/roll centers, weight
distribution, chassis flex, scrub radius, slip angle, effects along
the mass centroid axis, transient dynamics, and camber changes;
dunno 'bout you, but my brain took a LOOOOONG time to encapsulate
it all!

Fun stuff! And, more importantly, you look to be having fun.–
The original message included these comments:

It is interesting to see how the whole puzzle interacts.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Wiggie why are you doing an Iggy?–
The original message included these comments:

Fun stuff! And, more importantly, you look to be having fun.


George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from George Camp sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Um…HAH???

‘’)–
The original message included these comments:

Wiggie why are you doing an Iggy?


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Harvey Ferris sent Thu 20 May 2010:

Judging by the cross-weights in case 13, you may experience some
push in the left-handers, looseness in the right-handers. You might
want to try running a little more air pressure in the RR than the
LR, and/or, try a little less pressure in the RF, as opposed the
the LF. Looks to me like your corner weights/splits might well be
close enough to tune it simply with air pressure from this point on.–
Lee140FHC
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