[E-Type] OE Radial Tires for the series 1 XKE, More information

Hi

For some time now I have been trying to get to the bottom of
which radial tyres were fitted to a series 1 E-type, and I have
had a little come back from Jaguars Classic department with the
hope there is more to come. Here’s what I got so far

''Hi, ref our discussion yesterday, I tried to check with our
archive team but they are temporarily closed for business due
to a refurbishment program. However, I did manage to pick
through a very good ’ E Type guide book last night and found
the following paragraph:

Jaguar E Type Series 1 - 3.8 litre - Wheel and Tyre Equipment

Dunlop Road Speed RS5 tyres were fitted, size 6.40-15. Cars for
the USA commonly had white sidewalls, originally with a wide
band, later with a narrow band. Dunlop RS5 Road Racing Tyre
were available, sized 6.00-15 or 6.50-15 for the wider rim rear
wheels.

Jaguar Cars would fit other tyres on request, including radial
tyres such as Michelin X. By May 1963, both Pirelli Cintura HS
and Dunlop SP.41 HR 185-15 were stated to be available. If
SP.41 tyres were fitted, maximum speed should be restricted to
125mph (200 kph). ‘’

I read a little more into it, in that where; it says ‘‘such as
Michelin X’’ it doesn’t mean that the Michelin X was the only
radial tyre they fitted and the Cinturato CA67 185VR15
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/set-of-5-185vr15-
pirelli-cinturato.html
that Pirelli are making today was
available at that point since the mid '50s. so I would suggest
that the Cinturato would fit into the category of ‘‘other
tyres’’

But the good news is that it does say that Jaguar did offer the
Cinturato as an option from 1963. So the only genuine period
radial tyre that is currently made was, fortunately, also an
OE option.

Dougal
https://www.cinturato.net/e-type-jaguar-tires
Longstone Tyres
South Yorkshire, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Longstone sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

But are they better than the Vredesteins that many of us are
running?–
The original message included these comments:

But the good news is that it does say that Jaguar did offer the
Cinturato as an option from 1963. So the only genuine period
radial tyre that is currently made was, fortunately, also an
OE option.


Jim Horvath, '67 OTS, 1E13653
San Jose/CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Jim Horvath sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Is this info, or an ad?–
Bfastr
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Mainly info as most folks do now know that Jaguar released a Service Bulletin in May 1963 announcing the availability of the Dunlop SP series of tires for the E-Type.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.On Apr 13, 2016, at 12:44 PM, Bfastr bfastr@cox.net wrote:

In reply to a message from Jim Horvath sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Is this info, or an ad?

Bfastr
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In reply to a message from Robert Stevenson sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Hi,

Yes, but the Dunlop SP.41’s were available also in V
rating and supplied new to many Continental European sold
E’s, no speed restrictions, except the standard running-in
process of the engine. I think this was ca. 1966-1967, I
know one car for sure from October 1967.

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

Mainly info as most folks do now know that Jaguar released a Service Bulletin in May 1963 announcing the availability of the Dunlop SP series of tires for the E-Type.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.


MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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In reply to a message from Bfastr sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Bfastr,

The cynic in me would say ‘‘one masquerading as the other’’.
Perhaps a bit of both. Our esteemed Admin will be the
judge, no doubt.

-David–
The original message included these comments:

Is this info, or an ad?


http://tinyurl.com/zgjkej3 XK140MC OTS, S2 XKE OTS
Monterey CA, United States
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In reply to a message from davidxk sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

I believe he already has.

The original message included these comments:

The cynic in me would say ‘‘one masquerading as the other’’.
Perhaps a bit of both. Our esteemed Admin will be the
judge, no doubt.


Geo Hahn 1969 OTS 4.2
Mt Lemmon, Arizona, United States
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In reply to a message from Geo H sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Just seen this - been driving three days.

Indeed Dougal has been advised to tone down his promotion
here. J-L is not unique - he does this everywhere with
annoying frequency.

Sometimes less is more. He’s welcome to post tire-related
info but nothing directly linked to his selling unless
asked. I may have to spell the rules out to him again more
forcibly as Yorkshirmen are not famous for nuance and
subtlety. Allegedly their foreplay amounts to ‘‘Brace
yerself lass!’’

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

I believe he already has.

Perhaps a bit of both. Our esteemed Admin will be the
judge, no doubt.


66 ‘UberLynx’ D, 70 FHC, 79 S2 XJ12L, 97 XJ6L
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

… yer 'bout t’periance the wieldest 15 seconds of yer life!

Had cinturados on my E way back in the day. They were ok.
Sidewalls a little stiff. The Vreds are better, imho.–
The original message included these comments:

subtlety. Allegedly their foreplay amounts to ‘‘Brace
yerself lass!’’


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Longstone sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Dougal,

Back in the day the Cinturato was not a steel belted
radial, though it is today, I believe. So the tire you get to
today is not the same as the one in the ‘60s. Much better’ I’
I’d guess.

And the Vredestein Sprint Classic is a super tire, IMHO
better than the Michelin XVS which has been the benchmark
tire for decades. It has the disadvantage of being only HR
in the 185R15 size, but of course that’s more than adequate fo
for here in the US. It’s true that the build quality is no
not as good as Michelin and probably Pirelli, but pe
performance is the key, and it is very good, at less than ha
half the price of those other tires.

Dave Ferguson and Pete Crespin are enthused about Blockley tires, and I’ll have to try them too
tires, and I’ll have to try them too at some point…–
The original message included these comments:

But the good news is that it does say that Jaguar did offer the
Cinturato as an option from 1963. So the only genuine period
radial tyre that is currently made was, fortunately, also an
OE option.


Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Whaaat? I thought this was about tires… ;-)–
The original message included these comments:

subtlety. Allegedly their foreplay amounts to ‘‘Brace
yerself lass!’’


Jim Horvath, '67 OTS, 1E13653
San Jose/CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Jim Horvath sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Hmm

Even through my thick yorkshire skin, I seem to be sensing an element of resentment.

Is the Vredestein as good as the Pirelli or the Michelin? Well that depends if you choose your tyres based on price.

If you prefer driving on Vredestein to the Michelin or Cinturato then you base your judgement on different values to
mine. I have done back to back testing in a MK2 Jag Vredestein against the Cinturato and Vredestein against the
Michelin in an Alfa Spider. they are worlds apart. However I don’t suppose you will believe me. I suspect you will
imagine I am just trying to flog tyres. which to a certain extent I am, but I am not after the fast buck. I genuinely
try to encourage customers to fit what I consider to be the best tyre for their car regardless of cost. the fact that
more expensive tyres are often better for European sports cars is just the way it goes. better things cost more.

Back to the subject of my original posting.

This post was based on interest I have had from your members about originality of tyres.

I have copies of the May 1963 & November 1965 Jaguar bulletins about the Pirelli Cinturato & Dunlop SP41 which was
listed as a 185X15 and listed as H rated While at the same time the Cinturato CA67 HS was a 185VR15 (HS meaning High
speed. which is why that is what Ferrari were fitting to their 250 models) & the Dunlop tyres needing the cars speed
restricting. this SP41 tyre however has not been available for some considerable time. and I don’t think they came
close to the Cinturato from other comments I have had. I think the 185VR15 SP Sport that was also called the Aquajet
didn’t come out till '68 (maybe late '67).

So as far as originality for the e-type goes
Series 1
6.40H15 Dunlop RS5 not available. and not going to be made again by Dunlop in the foreseeable future by Dunlop. but
may be made by another company.
Radial alternatives
185SR15 (or 185SR380) Michelin X not made for some time
185X15 Dunlop SP 41 no longer made
185VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67-available

Series 2
185VR15 Dunlop SP Sport (Aquajet) Currently made by Avon.

Series 3 V12 with Power steering
ER/70VR15 Dunlop SP Sport (Aquajet) Currently made by Avon.

Dougal
PS my signature is down as Longstone tyres. I don’t think i’m hiding anything. make your own minds up. Maybe i’m
talking complete drivel. maybe I never even drive classic cars and i’m just after your money, without even caring if
i sell you a good tyre.–
Longstone Tyres
South Yorkshire, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Longstone sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

dougal
do the series 2 dunlops come also in white wall 3/8’’?–
69roadster
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In reply to a message from Longstone sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

You’ll have a hard time finding out the early history of the
Cinturato. Pirelli called the tire the ‘‘Cintura’’ when it
first became readily available in about 1962. Later, maybe
after 1964 the name was changed to the Cinturato. Same tire
with the same distinctive tread. Motor Sport magazine always
carried their adverts.

[http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_medbig/4/3/4/1358099304-4032-425.jpg]

My friends and I were very interested in these new tires at
the time when we discovered that their wet grip was
practically as good as regular tires in the dry. I bought
several sets in those early years and we considered them the
best tires available fir a while. (This was in the UK. I
don’t think anyone had heard of radial tires on this side of
the pond then.)–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Longstone sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

Dougal,

I certainly believe you represent a quality classic tyre outlet and many thanks
outlet and many thanks for that! You should definitely
continue to flog the best tyres, just not on this list.
David Jones has done a good job recommending your shop to
all of us, we know it’s good. But the rules are clear.

Your first post IMHO would have been perfectly fine for the
list, and valuable if you had just left the flogging out.
I don’t doubt that given everyone knows you represent Longstone
Longstone, you would certainly have got some business out of
of it without the flogging. This current post does not co
contain any sales offers and is good for the list. Please ke
keep up this sort of valuable information! Of course any at
attention is good attention but I don’t doubt you might so
soon be banned from the list and that would be our loss.

Again, I quibble with your opinion of Vredesteins. I have
no comparison with Pirelli, but I used exclusively Michelin
XVS on the E-Type since about 1975, and they are definitely
great tires. Considered by many superior to the Cinturato CA67 HS of the day (no idea how they compare to the different CA67 of today). I loved them until Michelin doubled the price and offered only old off
CA67 HS of the day (no idea how they compare to the
different CA67 of today). I loved them until Michelin
doubled the price and offered only old off-the-shelf tires;
at that point I decided to try Vredesteins. I autocross
the car, take long fast tours, and have taken it on track
several times on both tires, and for me the Vredesteins
proved superior in handling under all conditions, and at
half the price! All of these are great tires, of course, no
no slam intended against Michelin or Pirelli.

BTW, Michelin XAS was available from 1965 and the XVS is a sm
small modification of the XAS, so perhaps the XVS is closer to
to a tire available back in the day than today’s Pirelli CA
CA67.

If you choose tires based on price, you’d likely choose the
Michelins or Cinturatos; choose on performance it would be
Vredesteins every time. Better things cost more than a
minimum, but after a point no further value is received for
additional money, which can always be paid.

YMMV, of course.

Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

Umm Jerry, the Pirellis cost more than twice as much as the
Vredsteins.

185HR15 Cinturato CA67 �228.00
186HR15 Vredstein Classic �96.50–
The original message included these comments:

If you choose tires based on price, you’d likely choose the
Michelins or Cinturatos; choose on performance it would be
Vredesteins every time. Better things cost more than a
minimum, but after a point no further value is received for
additional money, which can always be paid.


Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from Clive Wilkinson sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

Clive,

!

By the way, excuse Windows 10 for the formatting problems.
I hope a fix will appear someday and make things right. I
notice that this is only a problem with the jag-lovers si
site…

Jerry–
The original message included these comments:

Umm Jerry, the Pirellis cost more than twice as much as the
Vredsteins.
185HR15 Cinturato CA67 �228.00
186HR15 Vredstein Classic �96.50


Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

Hi,

Yes, and at the time my ex-2+2 still had the V rated
Michelin XVS’s in 185VR15 the spare tire was carrying a
late-1960’s XAS. The tread pattern, the steel wire bulge
on the side of the outer wall etc. all matched. I do have
photos of it somewhere.

Ok, so Avon makes the repro Dunlops, I did not know they
(Avon) would have manufacturing in the UK, but there must
be a lot I do not know about tires. Still I have done
thousands of miles in old Jaguars with different tires,
over 130mph on the Autobahn, dozens of times over the Alps
and occasionally in pouring rain or through a blizzard, so
my experience with the Michelins, Dunlops, GoodYear, Fulda
and Gislaved is very much hands on. But I have very little
experience with Vredesteins, only a few test drives and
they seemed really nice. My Pirelli experience is limited
to XJ’s with P4000’s and F-cars with PZero Rossos.

I currently seem to have Michelins on all my cars, except
the XJ8 that has Fuldas. (225/55ZR16) but for the V12 E
and XJ6C I think I will go for the repro Aquajets next. I
prefer the looks and as long as they are new and at least
V rated I think I should be safe.

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

Again, I quibble with your opinion of Vredesteins. I have
no comparison with Pirelli, but I used exclusively Michelin
XVS on the E-Type since about 1975, and they are definitely
BTW, Michelin XAS was available from 1965 and the XVS is a sm
small modification of the XAS, so perhaps the XVS is closer to
to a tire available back in the day than today’s Pirelli CA
CA67.
YMMV, of course.
Jerry


MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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In reply to a message from Longstone sent Thu 14 Apr 2016:

Having never driven an E with the Vreds I cannot speak of
them, but my experience is with the Dunlop SPs and Universal
Sports. Like the Vreds, the Universal Sport has a 1-ply
sidewall, while the Dunlops are 2-ply. There was a
noticeable difference in steering response when switching
between them. Of course, there is a large difference in
price between the two as well.

The point is, what makes a tire better for one person may
not be a factor for someone else. Is it worth paying the
extra dollars for better performance on a car that you
seldom if ever get close to 80% of its limits? Only you can
make that decision.–
The original message included these comments:

Is the Vredestein as good as the Pirelli or the Michelin? Well that depends if you choose your tyres based on price.
If you prefer driving on Vredestein to the Michelin or Cinturato then you base your judgement on different values to
mine. I have done back to back testing in a MK2 Jag Vredestein against the Cinturato and Vredestein against the
Michelin in an Alfa Spider. they are worlds apart. However I don’t suppose you will believe me. I suspect you will
imagine I am just trying to flog tyres. which to a certain extent I am, but I am not after the fast buck. I genuinely
try to encourage customers to fit what I consider to be the best tyre for their car regardless of cost. the fact that
more expensive tyres are often better for European sports cars is just the way it goes. better things cost more.


Jack Terrick 66 FHC
Greensburg, PA, United States
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In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Wed 13 Apr 2016:

Hi all,

For looks, here a real timewarp car, 1E16167 (also on
xkedata.com) that sat three years on a ship deck and still
is almost like new including decals and tyres.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1460722770

The wheels and tyres on that car including balance weights
are as fitted at the factory in October 1967.

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

Yes, but the Dunlop SP.41’s were available also in V
rating and supplied new to many Continental European sold
E’s, no speed restrictions, except the standard running-in
process of the engine. I think this was ca. 1966-1967, I
know one car for sure from October 1967.


MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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