I need to fit a ‘‘T’’ to the oil filter base but can’t remove
the old sender.The hex underneath the sender seems to be
about 11/16 AF.It just won’t turn even after soaking in PB
Blaster.Any suggestions on how to remove it ?
Thanks,
Tony–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Thu 1 Nov 2007:
Tony,
If it won’t come off, force it. If it breaks, it probably
needed to be replaced anyway. It should just unscrew, but it may
be unGodly tight. You can always just remove the whole filter
block, and put it (carefully) in a vise. Your challenge will be to
find the proper T fitting, as it’s not a pipe thread, so it’s not a
standard hardware store fitting.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Thu 1 Nov 2007:
Ray,
Thanks for your advice.Sounds like you’ve had this one before !
I like your suggestion to remove the entire assembly and
work on it in a vice.
Thanks for the reminder about the threads, I expect they are
BSPP and I have a good source for such obscure adapter
fittings.It will be a challenge to get a brass ‘‘T’’
NPTxNPTxBSPP+dowty sealing washer.Sounds like an ideal
product for Coolcat?
Ifound a new possible source that may help others with this
problem: Europa Specialist Spares&Motorsport have some BSP
‘‘Ts’’ http://tinyurl.com/27cswo https://www.europaspares.com/INSTRUMENTS/
NAYYY
I shall resist the temptation to convert to a spin-on filter
& /or add oil cooler fittings while I have it on the bench.
Thanks again,
Tony–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Thu 1 Nov 2007:
Tony,
If you need details of the fittings used on the ‘‘T’’ I put together
for my 4.2, search the archives for a thread entitled ‘‘Oil Pressure
on a 4.2’’. The combination of fittings that I used (from MsMaster-
Carr) has proved oil-tight. I should be able to provide their part
numbers if you need them - just ask.
It’s certainly easier to work on this with the oil filter housing
removed. It’s probably worthwhile to check out the pressure relief
valve while you’re in there - sometimes they can get held partly
open by ‘‘foreign objects’’ that somehow have found there way into
the oil…
Good luck.
-David–
davidxk '56 XK-140 OTS, '69 XKE OTS, '98 XK8
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from davidxk sent Fri 2 Nov 2007:
David,
I had already found your helpful entry in the archives and
bookmarked it because of the useful info on thread sizes and
pitch. I shall try to add a few part numbers to your post
for the benefit of others who follow this path.
Thank you,
Tony–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
If you need details of the fittings used on the ‘‘T’’ I put together
for my 4.2, search the archives for a thread entitled ‘‘Oil Pressure
on a 4.2’’. The combination of fittings that I used (from MsMaster-
Carr) has proved oil-tight. I should be able to provide their part
numbers if you need them - just ask.
Here they are:
(as posted by Kevin Kemper sometime last year IIRC.) I know they work
becasue I’ve recently installed this on my car.
Part 9171K27 PRECISION THRD HI-PRESSURE BRASS PIPE
FITTING, 1/4’’ PIPE SIZE, FEMALE TEE (about $15)
Part 5832T122 BSPT-TO-NPT STD-WALL BRASS THRD PIPE NIPPLE,
1/4’’ PIPE SZ, 1-1/2’'L, THREADED BOTH ENDS, SCH 40 (about $3.50)
Part 4860K152 BRASS THREADED PIPE FITTING, NPT MALE X BSPP
FEMALE, 1/4’’ ADAPTER, 1-27/64’'L (about $6)
HTH
Don’t forget the teflon tape!
BTW: I used to be complete idiot when it came to plumbing, but my
BioDiesel experiments out in the barn have sharpened up those skills
considerably! McMaster’s website is bookmarked in my browser as they
have a host of stuff invaluable for a BioDiesel homebrewer… Totally
Off-Topic I know, sorry.
In reply to a message from chuck goolsbee sent Fri 2 Nov 2007:
The problem I had was finding awrench with a head slim enough to
fut under the body of the sender…I tried at least 3 different
brands of wrenches, and gave up in the end.–
Dagenham
San Diego, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Fri 2 Nov 2007:
BEN,
The spanner I used was an old English ‘‘Williams Super Slim’’
It is beautifully made and quite a generous length,fits
perfectly snug under the sender. Even with repeated soakings
with PB Blaster it still won’t budge. I’ll get it in the
vice this weekend.
Does anyone know if there is any merit to using a modern
sender like the ISSPRO? www.isspro.com http://tinyurl.com/35jydw
The problem I had was finding awrench with a head slim enough to
fut under the body of the sender…I tried at least 3 different
brands of wrenches, and gave up in the end.
–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
After receiving 4 defective OP senders from SNG I
finally gave up and bought a new gauge and sender from
JEC. I’ve been very happy with them. Cost about
US$150.
Larry
— anthony davenport anthonydavenport@mindspring.com wrote:
In reply to a message from Dagenham sent Fri 2 Nov
2007:
BEN,
The spanner I used was an old English ‘‘Williams
Super Slim’’
It is beautifully made and quite a generous
length,fits
perfectly snug under the sender. Even with repeated
soakings
with PB Blaster it still won’t budge. I’ll get it in
the
vice this weekend.
Does anyone know if there is any merit to using a
modern
sender like the ISSPRO? www.isspro.com http://tinyurl.com/35jydw
The problem I had was finding awrench with a head
slim enough to
fut under the body of the sender…I tried at
least 3 different
brands of wrenches, and gave up in the end.
–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM
[forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Thu 1 Nov 2007:
The proper size for the sender is a spanner marked ‘‘7/16BS
3/8W’’, ie the old type British sizes. One of the few on an E
Type that’s not the same as SAE. I think an 18mm is close if
it’s thin enough.
Having said that, the things don’t work anyway.–
The original message included these comments:
the old sender.The hex underneath the sender seems to be
about 11/16 AF.It just won’t turn even after soaking in PB
–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Clive Wilkinson sent Sat 3 Nov 2007:
Clive,
You are correct - it measures 17.5mm across the flats.
Does anyone know the correct resistance for a replacement
generic sender(since the OEM units are unreliable)? Are they
conveniently 240 Ohm -like Stewart Warner?
Thanks Tony–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Sat 3 Nov 2007:
Tony,
The static resistance of the Jag OP sender is completely
meaningless. Even many bad senders will have a perfectly normal
static resistance. The sender contains a heated bimetal strip and
a set of contacts that open and close several times per second when
connected to the gauge, and the effective resistance is determined
by the percentage of time those contacts are closed.–
The original message included these comments:
Does anyone know the correct resistance for a replacement
generic sender(since the OEM units are unreliable)? Are they
conveniently 240 Ohm -like Stewart Warner?
Thanks Tony
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Fri 2 Nov 2007:
Before I start re-engineering the oil pressure system, which
is a pitiful design to begin with, I would look at the JEC
replacement. Quite a few people, myslef included, switched
the gauge and sender units over to the system sold by JEC.
It uses a galvanometer movement and is original in
appearance. I have found it to be quite reliable and
accurate. I haven’t heard of anyone having any issues with
it. JEC did a nice job.
At one time before I switched it out, I had a mechanical
gauge ‘‘Teed’’ into the original sender. Not understanding why
the mechanical guage was reading so low, I changed it out
(twice!) and the different mechanical gauges gave different
readings. Go figure. I changed out to the JEC gauge/sender
and removed the mechanical tubing and never looked back.
The only issue I had with the JEC gauge is that it used to
only comes with a blue backlight. The SII cars used green
backlights. However I was able to change out a filter (not
easy) and I now have green. I am not certain but I believe
they now supply it with a green backlight.
In reply to a message from Richard L. sent Sat 3 Nov 2007:
Richard, Thank you for your suggestion.It sounds like the
best solution to buy a new matched gauge and sender.Your
source JEC is good too.
I found a site specializing in Smiths gauges but wow the
prices have gone up since I last looked a few years ago:
PTR1001-10EC*100psi 1/4 x 19 $82.00 http://tinyurl.com/2s98rv www.gaugeguys.com/Smiths/SmithsInstruments
Thanks, Tony–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Interestingly (?) enough, I have found that the bases
of the senders can be different sizes. The secret is a
thin wrench of whatever is the correct size. Many auto
parts and hardware stores have cheap wrenches on sale
that will fit just fine.
Larry
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent
Thu 1 Nov 2007:
The proper size for the sender is a spanner marked
‘‘7/16BS
3/8W’’, ie the old type British sizes. One of the
few on an E
Type that’s not the same as SAE. I think an 18mm is
close if
it’s thin enough.
Having said that, the things don’t work anyway.
The original message included these comments:
the old sender.The hex underneath the sender seems
to be
about 11/16 AF.It just won’t turn even after
soaking in PB
–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM
[forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from JOHN KOHLER sent Sat 3 Nov 2007:
Thanks John, I am still soaking it and hoping to turn it.
However I am more concerned with replacing it with an
improved sender .Without knowing the resistance
specifications, I don’t know what to buy - other than the
JEC sender+gauge kit. Egauges.com has a variety of senders but which to choose? http://tinyurl.com/374q6r--
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Sun 4 Nov 2007:
Anthony,
There is no other sender that will work properly with the
stock gauge. It is not a simple resistance sender.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sun 4 Nov 2007:
Ray,
Thanks for your patience with this issue.
I now understand why the JEC replacements include the gauge
because they use a conventional sender (rheostat type).
The only replacement sender I found that seems to be correct
is this one from the ‘‘gaugeguys’’-Smiths Classic Gauges.
PTR1801-06* 60psi 1/4 BSP $105.60 - agood reason to be
careful with the old one!
In reply to a message from anthony davenport sent Sun 4 Nov 2007:
To help others trying to remove the oil filter base:
1.Remove the filter casing and filter after preparing for
oil drainage.
2. Undo the 4 bolts securing the base.Don’t bother with the
hose clamps beneath it. They are difficult to reach and even
if you remove them entirely the filter base hose nipple
won’t pull out of the hose.
3. Undo the nuts on the flange beneath the filter at the end
of the hose - on the side of the sump.Lots of sump oil!
4. Remove the entire assembly secure in a vise with
protective wood on each side. Be careful to use pieces that
spread the load evenly.The base is soft and brittle.
5.Unscrew the oil pressure sender. But don’t think a mere
spanner will work. I tried a long Stahwille whitworth
spanner of the correct size.It won’t move it. What worked
was a a pair of 10’’ Channel lock pliers ,like this: http://tinyurl.com/yqspl4
Grip the hex, not the sender base! Yes the jaws of the
channel lock pliers area snug fit but when you squeeze hard
those serrated teeth bite into the hex sufficiently to stop
any slippage.
You’ll need a strong grip to do it and a very secure
arrangement in the vise.It would have been impossible to
have applied this much force in a safe and controlled way
with the filter base still bolted to the block. So Ray’s
advice to remove it (and use a vise+wood protectors)was
golden.Thanks Ray!
Why was it so tight? The aluminium had corroded a little and
there was no sealing washer on the male thread of the
sender.Since it has parallel threads I suspect it leaked
when first fitted by the P.O. so they tightened down
extremely hard.Its location allows condensation to pool on
the ledge beneath the hex and that allowed a little
corrosion to develop? All for want of a Dowty sealing washer
,or even a copper washer and some white loctite on the
shoulder.?
Another issue was the nipple that screws into the bottom of
the filter base was not even finger and must have been the
source of small a mystery oil leak for years.It had no
sealing washer nor any sealant on it’s shoulder.
The steel braided rubber hose has hardened to the point it
can’t be used again so I’ll replace it with :
Gates G3H(C3H) High-Temp 2-Fiber Braid Hose�SAE 100R3 from
the local industrial hydraulic store. http://tinyurl.com/2rxkbd
Thanks for everyones contributions and I hope these comments
help others doing the same task.–
95 XJR, 69 E-Type ots ,97 Miata ,‘X’-type SUV
Sierra Madre Ca 91024, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–